EPISODE 54: Pronoun Pride w/ Levi Chambers

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Show Notes

This week, Anne and Heather invite the host of the PRIDE podcast Levi Chambers on the show to discuss the ins and outs of gender identity, sexual identity, queerness, pronouns, and pride.

Be sure to follow the pod on IG!

From Straw Hut Media

Transcript


Straw media. Well, you know
that I've wanted to do this show for

a minute because it's such a tricky
thing navigating the language around the Lgbtq community.

And, as you know, obviously
both of us, you had something

that you stood up for so hugely
in your life and it's something that I

embrace so much in my life and
that we both feel so passionately about.

Yet how can the two of us
who feel this way still find ourselves stumbling

around the language? And the irony
of it is that we were people growing

up in the S and s that
fought for it when it was really hard,

when it was I remember walking down, I mean walking through the streets

with my gay friends in the S
and s and getting mean looks and people

being, you know, horrible to
us, and what you did was just

monumental. And so now if you
we find ourselves in a conversation using the

wrong word and upsetting somebody, it's
almost like you don't know what we went

through. Right, we were here
when we fought for you, because using

we fought for you to be here. So so give us a minute.

Yeah, like, yeah, we're
one hundredzero percent with you, but just

give us a minute to catch up, because it's gotten as far as we

could have possibly hope for. Well, in our wildest dreams we couldn't have

hoped that it would get as far
as it's gone, and it's fucking awesome.

But, like, but now what? And Mag yeah, like,

we gotta understand all. We had
to understand this terminology. So happy,

pride, pride, pride, and
this is what we are celebrating. Pride

is also education, it's evolution.
We are evolving and Levi, our teacher,

our master and our God, is
going to be the beginning of a

heather and me, and hopefully you, opening up, reminding ourselves again that

curiosity is the thing. It's okay
to be curious about what's going on.

Is Ours to seek the knowing and
the learning, and that's what we have

for you today. It's going to
be so much fun to lives into,

leave you and learn a lot.
Were better to listen, and so we

can just have to jump into it. We just jump in. I'm so

excited. We're so excited to have
you, Leavi. We've been wanting to

do this show for so long and, and you know this, this show

is really for the lovers and supporters, of of everybody. I'm calling it

right now under the rainbow, until
Levi teaches us the proper terminology, which

is what this show is about,
because we want it to be for every

but for the lovers and the supporters. It's not intended to be to talk

people into using the proper terminology and
the importance behind it, because we all

know the importance behind showing support for
those people we love and care about and

and supporting their journey into being their
true selves, because that is something that

obviously Anne has stood up for in
a big way her entire life. So

we're so happy to have you and
thinking to learn from you and to to

have you teach us, please educate
us. That's this is what today is

all about, learning from mom mass
about what we need to do, and

I think the the place to begin
is what I just said, where you

know I'm referring to it as everybody
under the rainbow. What? What?

How when I'm talking about the entire
community? Let's start there, please.

Okay, so I feel like this
under the rainbow is such a broad term

because you're kind of were under this
umbrella of under the rainbow. We have

different identities, regarding different things.
Right we have gender identity, which transgender

or SIS gender people, and then
we also have sexual identities like gay or

lesbian or queer or bisexual. So
it's this very broad thing that is beyond

just like this is all about to
someone falls in love with right there's a

whole lot of other people that are
kind of interwoven into this, this rainbow,

and it may not be about their
sexual attraction. It could just be

about their gender identity, and we
know that gender identity is really just about

how a person feels. And it
seems like a lot of the discussion around

gender identity right now centers in around
pronouns, specifically because some people prefer to

use they them pronouns, which,
although a lot of people don't think this

is the case, they can be
used as singular pronouns, just like he,

him or she her. It's just
a language, I guess, barrier

where people aren't used to using them
in those ways, but they can be

and it's still grammatically correct. I'm
in fact, you've probably done it for

people who identify using key, him
or she her pronouns, but that in

certain context you might say like,
Oh, they did it. It's over

there something like that. Right,
you might might use that language, but

it does seem like the hard part, hard part for people is is adopting

language just around someone's expression. It's
not as comfortable as identifying someone with a

name, because that's our habit and
we're not used to you know, we're

not used to this and want to
help people understands how to do it,

even to the point where when you
say a transsexual and using that language and

putting sex in the middle of that, and I think that's very confusing to

identify that way as a jot.
I mean, children shouldn't be identified with

the word sex in the middle of
I don't even know what gender allowed.

Is it transgender or it's I don't
even know if transsexual is the thing anymore.

I don't that's what we're U tell
us. Yeah, absolutely so.

Even that has been really phased out. It's more like a medical term,

right, like the word homosexual is
rooted in the medical psychology community, and

so is the word transsexual. Now
some people may say I'm a proud transsexual

and for that person that's their identity, right, and you can still respect

that. And if someone said like, Oh, they're transgender, you would

say, like know, the identify
as transsexual. That's because some people do

still identify using those terms. Are
Using homosexual, and that's fine for their

individual identity. But in terms of
talking about people in a broader sense,

transgender is the term really, because
it's about gender expression, not anything really

sexual, right, because gender and
sex are two different things. You could

be biologically your sex is male,
but still you identify as a Trans Woman

and maybe you're transitioning or maybe you're
not. You identify as a Trans Woman,

so you are a woman. That's
kind of how that plays out.

Right. It's really more about how
people feel and respecting their feelings their identity

to give them that validation. It
would be the same as if, like,

every time someone encountered heather or an
and every time you're on set,

everyone said like Oh, and he's
over there. Eventually you'd be like,

I'm not a man. Does does
everyone know this? Like I'm not a

man, I don't use those pronounce
my pronouns, or she hurt right.

So it's the same thing, right. It's just it's just accepting someone for

who their identity is and then respecting
it and doing your best to use those

their their preferred name, preferred pronouns, whatever the things are that really validate

who they are as an individual.
And it can be tricky. I mean

even I had to practice it,
I think, as more people were identifying

with using the pronouns, they them
using it in a sentence can be challenging

right, but if you really think
about it it it breaks down fairly easily

and actually there's a great video on
tick tock from Addison Rose Vincent, who

is nonbinary and an activist, and
it's about sixty seconds long but it's a

great explainer in which they kind of
inform how to use it and it comes

out super simple. When they do
it, it's very much like, oh,

that's heather, they use they them
pronouns. It's not that hard.

Once you start interchanging they with,
you know, he and them with him,

it did kind of starts to flow
a little bit better and I think

it's just because we're not used to
doing it and when people aren't used to

doing things it's hard and then they
don't want to offend people. But I

think even that causes more issues because
most people it's not even about nailing it

every time, like you want to
nail it every time, because that's what

you would do for any other person. But at the same time it's making

that that cognizant effort to care enough
about someone that you've met or that you

interact with all the time, that
you know who just prefers to use those

pronouns that you do it, if
that makes sense. Like I know that

sounds weird to just do it because
it's hard, but it it. I

think it's something that would, just
a smidgeen of practice, is easily adoptable.

Your kind of speaking about when some
people say I'm really good with names

or I'm not really Oh, I
don't forget everybody's name, is that he's

being thinking consciously how to do it, and that is normal, right.

Like yeah, and I think that
if you do have somebody in your life

that's you make the effort and and
you find out. But like you us

just talking now, you we said
transsexual, not knowing that that you know

it is a term not used.
So it's it's so easy. I guess

the point is it's so easy to
step into it now without knowing. So

that's so that's what that's kind of
what I want to solve here here today,

like even when we talked about that
the broader term. So like the

broader term, sometimes it's calls quender
there. Can I ask one question first,

because I think sometimes how how do
you approach a curiosity in a way

that honors the person? I think
that's part of it too. If we

don't know when we're not in the
context with them often, but we know

that they would like, we know
that they would like to be identified some

way and the person that we want
to identify isn't necessarily telling us right off

the bat. Is there a way
to enter that conversation with respect? I

think that the the safest bet,
honestly, is to use a more neutral

pronoun, like they them. I
do that generally if I'm working with someone

w who I mean, even if
someone may present as very feminine or very

masculine, they may not use gendered
Pronoun like he him or she her.

So the safest bet is to revert
to they them, which I know how

there's like a Lord, because this
is tricky right, like he's like I

would be. I'm sorry, I
think that guy's a very specific thing.

It is tricky. I mean I
love this information. I think it's fantastic.

I just would see. I wouldn't
know that, but right I and

because that's an assumption and I think
that is the generalization rising and blown away.

I can tell by his feel like
the people that I know usually tell

me front if they like. I
go by data. Yes, often people

do. It's becoming a thing right, like you see it and I see

it in zoom right when I join
up even class with school right I'll see

like a person's name, Brian,
he him. So a lot of people

are, even if they're not necessarily
part of the queer community or the Lgbtq

community or they don't use you know, their preferred pronouns align more with their,

I guess you'd say, like societal
presentation of gender. So it most

people do kind of tell you like, Oh, I use they them,

and that first time. That's something
that I don't generally worry about. Like

I make an effort to know someone's
pronouns, especially if that person puts it

out there. Maybe they put it
on their linkedin in their email signature,

in their instagram profile. So then
I make that effort. If someone doesn't

put that information out there and I
don't feel like I can, I guess

this is a bad way to say
it, but like, guess what pronouns

they prefer? I try to use. They them. No one really corrects

you for like they them in the
same way because it doesn't have a gender

tie that they would he hamm or
she her if they identify with a different

set of pronouns. Everyone uses pronouns. Right, they are, and they're

using those pronouns to convey gender information
in a communicative way. That's how heather

use it. If you say,
oh no, my pronouns are she hurt,

that's telling the other person who's communicating
with you a lot of information with

literally two little words. Right,
tell me what does that communicate? Just

for people like so she her means
that I communicate, that I communicate as

what I would call in my old
time and my old terminology, a straight

woman. I would say it's probably
could be SIS gender or transgender. Right.

So, using sheer her, you
may be a lesbian and still use

she her. Right, okay.
So really the information it's communicating is more

so about gender identity and has really
nothing to do with sexuality, nothing to

do with sex in any way.
See, that's that this clarification. That's

the clarification of an all yes,
yes, okay, what's Nice time know

this by says that if I and
then if I said I'm SIS, that

means that I like Dick. Right, SIS, gender, doesn't it?

Gender just means that you, you, you identify with the gender you were

assigned at birth. As your sister, we your style. We still haven't

gotten to Dick. Not. Yeah, not there yet. Wow, she

wants to get there really bad.
Okay, we're still a gender, right.

Okay, you saying I'm sisgender.
That means that you was born with

female parts, with Female Genitalia,
and you align with that gender. Yeah,

okay, so I'm a I'm a
she her sis, sis, full

Scott Sis. That's I just say
sis. You can say SIS gender.

I probably start with if I'm heather, I would say like hi, I'm

heather. My pronouncer she her,
and I'm just gender. Right, that

would be I'm assist gender. Woman. You can say that. Or I'm

as this woman, if you want
to. Okay it up a little bit.

Okay. And then what? Then? Where do we get to the

sexuality? Okay, the Dick.
Okay. So then the sexuality part,

you might is if I'm actually being
you and I'm introducing myself as you.

I'm another. My pronouns or she
her. I'm assist gender, straight woman,

okay, or I'm assist gender.
You know, however you identify,

and I liked Dick. Okay,
no, no, my pronouns are she

her. That tells them a lot. Okay, this person identifies as a

woman. I'm just gender. That
means I was born with the Genitalia that

is, you know, more societally
associated with the gender that I, you

know, aligned with. Okay,
and on top of that I'm straight,

so I'm probably in a relationship with
a man, or I'm interested, you

know, in the opposite sex,
or maybe someone in the same way.

We don't say homosexual, we don't
say heterosexual anymore. You know, I

think people are getting away from that
and using straight, because it's heterosexual,

homosexual, all of those are very
medically rooted in terms of like psychological terms

that it was back when when queerness
was really more of like a psychological disorder.

I guess is how it was perceived
by the medical community. So those

are those medical terms right. Well, I mean, okay, so I'm

I just have to say how incredible
it is to note the difference now.

There is there has been change in
growth. Identifying the way that you're talking

about the what you align with is
an announcing it, saying it with pride,

something we did not do years ago. Well, now that we've broken

me down, what would Anne be? SIST? Well, now, because

Anne, you you, you've assis
you've said that. You you've described yourself

as well, by mistake. You
would say you're sexually liquid, but then

she said she's sexually fluid. Know, somebody called me sexually fluid and I

got it wrong. I know.
And you called yourself sexually liquid, but

somebody who's a little more fluid than
I that. I was doing a podcast

actually, and they said, well, you were, you were the first

sexually fluid person and it had changed
their way of looking at things. And

then I was retelling the story and
I said it was sexually liquid. But

like, what would you what would
you identify as? What would be your

what would you be? Well,
I say I'm a Heeshi because I first

of all it's my last name and
everybody pronounces it that way and my real

last name is h. So I
reave. You put the C two is.

It's a he she at this seed
goes outside down and I like that

because I stand up for the right
to choose to love who you want to

love, regardless of gender, and
I feel like that. I bet there's

a label for that already. Yes, so let's not what it is there

for gender expression, if it's if
you're trying about gender expression or finding you

know, in a romances talking about
that. I was with a woman.

I do not think that gender is
the thing that I would look at to

choose who I fall in love with
or have sex with. However, since

I'll and I have not had sex
with another woman and she was the first

woman I that's with. So I
think I identify as a using for yourself,

but I think you gender your gender. You identify as a woman.

Do you feel any man gender?
I feel that we are all combined gender.

That's what, again, sperm are. So we have the capability to

identify with the male and the female
and in us. I just think that

that's the freedom we have. So
I don't I don't know is there.

I don't know what that's. I
don't know what that is. I don't

identify as a I do not identify
as a man. No, but I

identify some masculine qualities with in myself
and I don't know, I would be

open to another woman. I just
haven't penny up. Probably sexually fluid or

pansexual is I mean. And when
you're talking specifically about sex, and then

in terms of gender, maybe gender
fluid or non binary. I think all

of the terms kind of have to
depends on the person right how they prefer

to what terms they use to label
themselves, because that's kind of also getting

back to like the respect element of
of gender expression and identity and and asking

people about their pronouns. One thing
I did want to mention as it like

we talked about. I said,
like my preferred pronouns are he him.

I mean personally. A lot of
trans people don't use the term preferred pronouns

because it implies that there was a
choice in who they actually are as a

person and aligning with that right.
So there's a lot of I guess you'd

say, nuances to how to communicate
with many different types of people, not

just, you know, in the
LGBTQ plus community, but many different identities

of a people who identify in lots
of different ways. So there are things

like that to keep in mind,
as well as like a transperson is.

Was always a woman, board like
Trans Woman in particular, I'm using as

an example, was always a woman, was born a woman, did not

align with the sex they were assigned
at birth, but so their gender expression

is as a woman. That's probably
the as I said, like deciding what

pronouns to use. If you don't
feel comfortable asking someone their preferred pronouns or

what their pronouns are, however you
want to word that to them, usually

just using the pronoun that aligns the
most closely with how that person expresses themselves

is generally a safe bat. Obviously
they them. Is always a great option

because it's very neutral. You can
use it for anyone. People do use

it for anyone, like I'm sure
I've said, like you know about it.

My Mom, she just put a
bunch of stuff in storage from my

grandmother. Oh, I know,
they did it. They put it in

there, right. Who Am I
talking about? One talk about my mom.

She did it. She put it
in there, but they worked fine

too. So I used it,
you know, right, and it wasn't.

It's not like I'm not a gendering
my mom in any way beyond they

them right. I'm using those pronounced
to identify them. So I think they're

there is a lot of nuance and
there's a lot of education that has to

be done. I mean even for
myself thinking about it, like I just

at the moment thought like Oh,
I should mention that preferred pronouns is not

always the best way to ask someone
to communicate to them, like what pronouns

do you use flying the choice,
because you're implying the word choice with the

use preference. Right. So even
that is a very it's more nuance,

right, right. So I well, it's interesting that you're bringing it up

because this is the exact difference between
what Ellen and I spoke about twenty years

ago. She was standing up for
the understanding and identification of being born gay

and I was standing up for the
choice to be with whomever I wanted to

be with, regardless of gender.
So it's interesting that you're talking about preference

here. What is your point of
view on on preference or choice? So

I think a lot of that depend
on even saying, like what's your sexual

preference? Is really not something people
say anymore because it implies that you made

a choice to you know, to
I made this choice that I'm preferring this

when it's more of a natural,
like intrinsic attraction, I guess you'd say.

But is it? But is it
not a choice, though, to

continue with that attraction? I'm I'm
confused by this question because I feel like

choice is our number one super power
and empowerment, to be able to say

yet yes, I continue to choose
this because it's what I want and what

I feel. And we're talking about
being born, born in a different way

than we necessarily look. However,
the choice we make every day is our

power, I feel like. So
I'm I question why we don't want to

embrace that our by saying, yes, it's a preference, because I'm didn't

identify with how I was born,
but I do choose every day to live

in that truth. I think that
the choice in there lies in you may

make a choice to be in a
relationship with someone or an individual. You

make a choice to have sex with
someone. Right, those are choices,

but that's different. That's really interested
is being sense like it does totally impletely

makes sense. It clarifies for me
just it that is. That's a very

clear understanding, I think. But
like in your brain, you never,

there's, I'm assuming there was never
a day when you were like today,

I'm going to choose to find Ellen
degenerous attractive. I'm going to choose that

right now. That part happened.
You did make a choice to be in

a relationship with, yes, that
person, but did not make it's not.

You didn't make a choice to say
like, choosing right now finding you

attractive. That part is the natural, Intrinsic Element of just like being human.

Right. You found this because of
your genetic makeup or your biologic make

up or your your psychology. You
find this person attractive. You don't choose

it right or that person or whatever
person you might attractive. Well, I

mean, I think that's what hether
was trying to get at, because that

is that is an interesting moment.
I literally did choose to be completely okay

with whatever was going to happen because
I yes, I was attracted to that,

but it was a very specific choice
for me. However, I completely

understand with gender identity and I'm really
trying to get this language. It's so

good to have this conversation. It
is I completely get, not what you're

talking about in those terms and being
able to state, for a fact how

you were born. It was not
what you necessarily look like to your parents,

and that is not a choice,
but where and your actions that you

enjoy furthering with that is is the
choice. That's really cool. Yeah,

you know, we were talking earlier. It's not just a straight, a

straight thing, because I was talking
to two friends of mine that that I'm

saying earlier. I mean I call
them old fashioned gays because we're just it's

just from a from the old fashioned
s gays, you know, like we

just were from a different a different
time. And they when I was telling

we were doing the show, they're
like they didn't understand. They don't know

any of the language either. Right, you know, they don't date.

This was back you guys are young, when we didn't, we didn't we

didn't have the language. So,
like it wasn't okay after language. I

mean, I mean we were straight
or those it. There's one of you

are either straight and we were afraid
of it, or you were gay.

There was no there was nothing in
between. And like they would use words

back then like Oh, you know, they have a different lifestyle like that.

was worried that they would use back
then that like we would never I

assume that that's dead, like you
know. I mean I have common sense

about certain things. Like you know, you would never refer to that as

somebody's lifestyle, for God's sakes,
but that's what they used to us there

were the all it was a cover. Everything was a cover. That's her

answer. Her sister's visiting from land. But the kids asked. But yeah,

so, so it's it's it's an
age thing. It you know,

for people like us it's not a
it's not a straight it's not a straight

thing. It's well, and that's
part of why we the furthering of the

needle that we talk about. It's
really interesting because of course now there's a

plethora of language and this that we
get to learn from. But but you're

right that we need the education and
also learning to being like things that you

wouldn't normally think of, like when
you when you when you start a speech

that says, you know, good
afternoon, Ladies and gentlemen, like things

like that that we we really need
to i. to like a dress.

What when you said think about you
know. Yeah, a good example of

that is the Disney theme parks,
which, I know Disney right now is

kind of in a heated scandal with
their support of the don't say gay bill

in Florida. But they I was
last year of the year before where they

changed that like iconic. Ladies and
gentlemen, boys and girls, that like

announcement that the Disneyland Parks had where
they change that till like to be more

inclusive of everyone, and now they've
been. God. So I looked them

up. Esteemed guests, friends and
colleague know that's the inclusive yeah, the

big after the Rainbell, that's are
the new language. Well, wait a

minute, I did I hear you
correctly? Disney is getting behind the bill?

No, for God's Sakes, no, Disney, I am I don't

know now. That's I I asked
if I heard wrong. I don't have

all the details. What it was
was that Disney had made donations to certain

political campaigns in large amounts of money
that eventually supported the don't say gay bill,

and by eventually I mean like within
a fairly short amount of time.

So basically there's a movement right now
to hold these really large companies more accountable

for their donations. And actually,
Abigail Disney went on a huge rant on

twitter. Oh really, yeah,
it's actually pretty fascinating when you when you

dig in there to see what's going
on. But yeah, it's just companies

being held more accountable. Let's talk
about just quickly for those that don't know

that might be listening, what they
don't say. Gay Bill. It passed

in Florida and it forbids instruction on
sexual orientation and gender identity in kindergarten and

third grade and it now moves to
that lovely governor Ron de Santus has desk,

who's expected to pass it into law. And it is it forbids preschool

teachers them and and you know,
through third grade to give any instruction or

and the idea that that preschool,
kindergarten first grade teachers are are turning children,

yet they're a lot of teal is
is is ludicrous. I mean we

could do an entire show on that, but I think that people should just

be aware of the idiocy of of
such a such a bill and and at

this kind of yeah, bullshit.
It's still going on and I know I

called Disney out and I know that
I believe chappic did reach out to the

governor of Florida and expressed that the
Walt Disney Company was concerned about the legislation

becoming law and that it would unfairly
target lgbtq plus people. But the real

thing there's that that they already did
support it, right. So that's where

the backlash is coming from. Is
like, but you've already supported it and

now is it. Are they going
to make changes? Why? I hope

so, because I mean, I
think a lot of people love the Disney

brand and they, you know,
seemingly are responding to the backlash. So

put that out there, because I
did call them out, but well,

good on you. I'm curious about
the other states that there's saying are going

to jump on board if this passes
nine to two. Whatever. Is like

support going through other communities for this? What's your take on that? I

Know Idaho is passing legislation that.
I'm not sure if it's the same as

the don't say gay bill, but
I know it has to do with Trans

Youth being offered any sorts of medical
treatments and that being illegal for miners.

Moving forward. Is that, essentially, transgender teens will be denied any sort

of gender affirming treatments or or medical
procedures with it or things like that until

I believe they have to be adults. I think that's what it is.

It basically criminalizes medical treatments for Trans
Youth in a summary. So that's happening

in Idaho right now. There are
a lot of things happening in various states

and criminalizes their parents and criminalizes same
sex couples for and they're not allowed to

talk about their parents. It's so
it's it's so devastating. I would love

to know what your point of view
on how we were talking about communication and

education. How do we fight this? What do we do and what do

is your point of view on on
why this, why this is happening and

how this could continue to happen?
I think a lot of legislatures, legislators

are using a very specific I guess
you'd say, like fear in maybe parent

parents who are SIS gender and straight
and living in a nuclear family, but

it's it basically is creating this boogeyman
in which you plant the seed to those

parents that like, Oh, these
teachers are teaching sex to pre k through

third graders, which is really not
happening right like I'm definitely my experience.

I've been it was a long time
ago, but brief. You know,

preque through third grade, none of
that ever happens, right, but that's

what they're using as this weapon to
kind of make it like we need this

lot to protect your kids. Otherwise
the teachers could be talking about gay sex

in class and it's like what Second
Garay Teachers Doing? That exactly goes back

to having sex. And then why
are kids even talking? Why are we

talking about our kids about sex when
they're in kindergarten any be and having that

conversation? Well, I think it's
so that's how they're getting that long goes

back to what we're talking about today. Is is is acceptance and making this

making this language mainstream. I think
that scares the shit out of people,

is making this normalizing something that's,
you know, well, they have to

think about others and others would like
to identify this and they think that by

doing that their kid, it's going
to turn turn their child gay, because

it's served up to them on a
platter and it's right there for the which

is which is ridiculous, which is
ridiculous. So, anyway, back to

I mean, like I said,
we could just we could, we could

go on, we could go on
for that very exact like good, we

could, but I like we we
wanted to start with and we've talked about

really addressing a question and you have
done that here. And how do we

help and what do we do too? But I still have my question.

Of says, he says. How
do we? Well, what is the

umbrella? Will Two questions, a
couple of questions still I have. One

is, how do we address the
umbrella community? And then my next question

is the like the word Queer.
We say the word Queer and I know

that the queer community has his kind
of I mean I know the historically,

the word queer started out like was
from like the fifteen hundreds and meant like

odd and strange, strange. And
then I know that the the queer it

was taken over by what we now
refer to as the queer community many,

many, many years ago. Marsh
was we're here, we're Queer, get

used to it. Well, no, I know, but I think it

was. It was, it was
taken over even before that. Yes,

yes, and and and kind of
taken as our own. I say our

own because I was the Weirdos one. No, no, I mean for

the for the gay community. That
took see, I can again. Do

you see these stumblies? That's why
we're having just say, you to see

me stumbling with how to refer to
the to it all, and so but

this is not going to be our
only conversation about this, because what we

want to do is help create that. Anyway, the history of the word

Queer is fascinating. Yeah, because
it's started out meaning that and then the

queer community took it over and now
it's a prideful word but still part of

anyways. Take it away on queer
that. That's something that we actually see

a lot of in overseeing just kind
of the larger social media communities that my

company overseas at lgbt on Instagram,
things like that, platforms like that.

When we use those words, a
lot of time we'll get feedback from the

older generation that the word is hateful, that it's a slur, that they

were called out on the playground and
you know, it's hurtful to them,

and that is a one of those
words that's kind of been reclaimed by the

LGBTQ plus community in in this way
that it was like it was a weaponized

word and now it is an identity
or a label that a lot of people

embrace, and actually will sterling,
who was the original producer of my podcast,

recently came out as queer, and
that is a term that before,

I mean kids, would say,
I go, he's queer as a two

dollar bill. It was an insight, right, but it has been reclaimed

and it is one of those things
that it's hard because you have certain people

from a certain era in which things
were done a certain way. Even like

you said those, though I think
you called them like the old gays,

fashion gays. Yeah, the old
fashion gays. The acronym was LGBT,

and so lgbtq plus or any of
those identities that are encompassed in the plus.

Is that appropriate? To say,
Algebat? Well, by the way,

queer is a two dollar bill.
Queer used to be refer that's what

they referred to counterfeit as queer,
like it was. It's actually because a

little little I like it. I've
not get there. Yeah, I love

it. Yeah, I would.
I would say the even question, I

mean lgbtq is guess some people would
argue like the Qu is questioning the queue

is queer, but that the word
Queer has definitely been reclaimed recently and many

people do embrace it. But again
that comes back to someone's personal feelings towards

something right, like, like you
mentioned, using the word transsexual. If

someone identifies as that, then you
would respect that and if that's how they

identify you, you would use that
to describe them, if that's how they

wanted to be described, right,
because something about that resonates with them and

they embrace it, and so you
should too, out of respect for them,

although mean, most people do not. It does have to do a

generation and the gaps and the and
the growth of language and everything that we

learn too, because it's really from
whatever. Like our old vasion gays our

age have the word queer, but
there's different there's always different words that change,

and of forty year old would have
maybe a different less language than a

thirty year old right now, because
this is new language. I mean,

I really are there words that are
there words that have been that one was

weaponized and now reclaimed? Is there
a word that is weaponized? Now we're

talking about definitions and is is there
something that just is has been reclaimed as

a weapon or a new weapon that
we should be aware of? That is

hurtful. I think the ones that
you know again, there are people that

I know within the LGBTQ plus community
who use these words to describe themselves or

they they choose, you know,
these labels, this specific words like fag

or dyke. There are people,
I mean there's a there's an event in

Palm Springs that this group of Queer
Women, I think, I think they're

still doing it. It was it's
called dikes on bikes and I believe they're

on motorcycles. Yeah, I positive. I think that's it. But they've

reclaimed that word. That's still,
I would say, still an anti lgbtq

term that probably, like mainstream media, mainstream personalities, would want to avoid.

Right, if someone came on your
show and was like, Oh,

I'm a fag, you would let
them take that, reclaim that word,

use it, do what you know, in the same way that other people

would with other words. So there
is that level of like maybe as an

ally, if someone came on,
you wouldn't say that to them unless they

said it, and then you may
still not ever say it, but you

would let them do it right like, because that's part of someone. Right,

we aren't calling somebody a diet but
if they don't say hey, listen,

I identified, they would call me
that because they've claimed that word for

their power. Any and then you
probably would never say it to them,

but you would know like, Oh, this person embraces that word as something

that means something to them. It
teaches us something about them by how they

identify. You know, it's funny. You said that word and I realize

that you know, my whole life
I've all my friends have been gay men

and and when I was younger I
was always called a fag hag and nobody

has that called me that. And
you I forgot about that term. I

forgot that that's what I was called. Wow, it went away, but

I totally forgot. But I never
got a new name. Well, is

it just you know, what do
we call her now? What do we

call the girl? What do we
call snows and old as at all,

an old fashioned gay hat? Now
I do it's just a friend, it's

it's just you know. I write. Do we get over identifying again?

We justn't answered my question. I
we keep chatting away. What do we

call the community? How do we
call it? What do we say like?

What do you how would you like
if you were saying I'm supportive of

I am an ally to as an
allied. Probably I probably would avoid the

queer community because not everyone under there
has embrace it. Right, right,

they're not going to brace it.
It means sound vulgar or derogatory to some

people. I would probably stick with
Lgbtq community. Can I say everyone under

the Rainbow? Can I just say
that, or is that not right?

I mean, you're probably fine.
Yes, I mean between that, like

you see on Tick Tock, you
see people say, like we're part of

the alphabet mafia, which is a
little bit of a joke, but it's

also they're saying like the LGBTQ plus
community, because the acronym is getting really

long. That's what they're you know, it's kind of like a joke out

it. That's why I we wanted
so badly to not be lazy about our

understanding. It's obviously not the first
conversation. I'm don't say everyone nder the

rainbow. If I can. If
that doesn't offend anybody, I think it's

cute. What I thinks you too. Okay, one point it was going

to be the name of our company. Know, we're we're wheel. We

want to embrace and we want to
know the right way and respectful way to

do it in this conversation has been
so incredibly helpful and I feel like just,

you know, the beginning of this
conversation for a for are learning and

forgot to mention this. This is
something that I would say like this a

lot throughout this discussion. I've used
the term identify. Right, this person

identifies as that. Yes, I
use it to to keep in mind with

that is let's say that you have
a trans woman who comes on your show

and I don't know, we're making
this person up. Her name is Diana,

right. If she came on the
show, you would not introduce her

as this is Diana, she identifies
as a trans woman. It would just

be this is Diana, she's a
trans woman. Okay, right, yeah,

because it's the identity, the identifies
portion of that is suggesting that in

some way it's like an orientation or
some sort of what I would say she's

a trans woman. I wouldn't to
say she's Diana, but like specifically,

if you're having a conversation around that, what I'm saying is like if she

came on your show and she was
like, Oh, yeah, I'm a

Trans Woman, that's if you're introducing
her. You just checking on that?

Do you want to? Do you
want us to say, like this is

Diana right, she's so and so, she is a trans woman, or

just like do you want to?
That's just a conversation. Okay, and

maybe that is. That's like the
summary of this entire conversation is not being

afraid to screw it up the first
time and then when you if you do

screw it up right, and someone
corrects you and Diana says like, Oh

no, I don't use she her, I use they them right, make

the effort to respect that and use
they them right. That's the summary.

Is that you. I don't think
people should be afraid to screw it up.

People make mistakes all the time and
then you just learn from it.

Sometimes you get sometimes people get mad, and and I and I want to

just say, like be patient.
Be Patient, because people are intimidated and

and and and it's not done because
they don't love and respect you. It's

done because they just fucked it up
and they're trying. You know it just

as people. I hope people know
that that it's not it's not meant to.

I think most people do. When
it's not like if someone said to

you, Oh, while I you
know, my pronouns are she her,

and they told you that, and
then again you're like, he did this.

Then they might be like, Oh, my pronouns are Shehr, and

then it happens again. At some
point it becomes like do not care enough.

Yeah, but if it happens again, her Dick and or what I

mean, it's just don't be a
dead because that, I said, part

of what we're talking about, and
even a broader, a bigger umbrella.

I think rainbow and his rainbow is
that what we're asking people to do is

have pride in who they are and
being able to speak it. And that

is such a difference from where,
from my history, where there was no

pride in how you spoke, and
that's why we had the march on Washington.

To learn to be proud of who
we are, and I think it's

on the other side to learn to
be curious, learned to ask questions and

be bold in yourself when you're not
understanding something. That too is self pride.

And what what's Lazy is when you
don't want to pay attention, you're

not curious and you're not respectful.
So we want to combine exactly that with

the other side who's curious and and
say yes, ask questions. We're all

we're learning in the more curious you
are, in respectful you are, nobody's

going to get offended if you say
I'm sorry, Oh, listen, if

you get it wrong that but you
know one time and you go what you

forgive me, like we're human beings. We want to learn this, we

want to be conversation and friendship and
it takes both sides to do that and

it and you have to take the
risk to maybe not know, but respect

the other person and yourself enough to
ask, because it's respectful, kind and

loving. One last question. Where's
the Dick? Dude? Dude, is

dudes out? Dudes for everyone,
right? I mean I call everyone and

anyone to dude. Know what to
dude. You'd probably have. You probably

would have avoid it. If you're
if you're really trying to not offend anyone,

you probably avoid it, right,
because it's the same as like,

like I've been in calls on zoom
calls where a professor will say, like

Hey, guys, and then women
in the class will say, like,

we're not all guys, and you
can even those like they're kind of making

a joke, but they're also implying
that like, but we're not all men,

you know what I mean. So
I think there is some of all

of that and certain people are more
sensitive to things. So, I mean,

I used to do that a lot
and I had to work on it.

So now it's you're like hey,
y'all, is like like hello everybody

again and throws it down to you
can call me Bro. I think one

of the things that you, Um, God, I then got caught on

on Bro know you were saying something
that was totally Sevin. Good with it,

and you can use dude or Brokin
and can use due to Bro with

me too. Um, my pronouns
are due bro. Okay. Well,

I do like the Dick. All
right, SIS, everybody listening out there?

I think this is how we're going
to wrap this up today with sister.

Don't be a Dick and like the
Lord, she doesn't learn very quickly.

It's so we leave my we need
to have you back remediately. Will

Get dude over here. Understands it
is as it is so cool to be

learning and having this experience. You
wanted to do it for so long.

Heather and rhyme, this is an
exciting day. I apologize for my delays

and in it I'm just so grateful
that you were you know, we really

appreciate this and I think that really
what we've learned is that it's really it's

really individual and it's really all about
embracing everybody's individuality, which is really,

really awesome, right. It's good
and most awesome thing, and understanding and

have compassion for the fact that we're
going to we're learning as we go and

that everybody's dating it together, and
it's right. It's like it's really accepting

everybody for their true and authentic self
and and everybody should take the time to

really to really make that effort.
We should take the time to make that

effort and everybody should take the time
to be patient with us and help us

along the way. Like if you
see if you see us, it's a

general body. That would go a
long way. I know, certainly for

teens especially, you are forming language
atlas he started. We want to be

able to have a conversation that's open
and not judgmental and encourage. We know

we can a lot. We can
enjoy. We can enjoy getting to learn

these words and have forgiven us on
both sides. We really appreciate your time

on this so abraskingly. I thank
you for making us better. Thank you.

Yeah, welcome. Were better together
with and. Well, that was

fantastic and as confusing as I thought
it might be. I'm to myself as

an issue. I think the two
of you were like no, you're not,

no, you're not in like he
says. When you define yourself once,

that's one thing you can't be denied. The second time, you three

didn't let me be a he she. Three times in a row you're like,

nope, that's not it, nope, that's not it. I'm like,

this is this was a learning experience
and I feel like I could do

it all over again. I have
to listen all about you, US,

assist, you are, you are
assist and and it's like all you says.

Well, I mean cheers to pride
month. Yeah, and you know,

here at better together, we embrace
everybody for being there true and authentic

self, and we also embrace everybody
who accepts people, yes, for being

there true and authentic self. And
that's what pride is. It's for all

of us, it's for it's for
the allies as much as it is for

people that I under the rainbow.
That's right, that you making us better

together today, and a big,
big thanks to our better together team,

Ryan Tillotson, Silvana Alcohola, Daniel
Ferrara and, of course, and in

Heather. If you haven't already,
please subscribe on whatever device or platform you're

listening to this on and, as
always, see you next week.
Better Together w/ Anne Heche and Heather Duffy
Anne Heche's BETTER TOGETHER w/ Anne & Heather is a space where guests introduce us to the person that makes them better. For me, that's my friend, Heather, and t... View More

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