EPISODE 58: The Way of Integrity w/ Dr. Martha Beck

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This week, Anne and Heather are joined by self-described “Wayfinder” Dr. Martha Beckto unlock the power of integrity. Martha is a Harvard-trained sociologist, world-renowned coach and New York Times bestselling author. She has published nine non-fiction books, one novel, and more than 200 magazine articles, including her most recent book, The Way of Integrity .

You can follow Martha on IG and FB @themarthabeck

Be sure to follow the pod on IG

From Straw Hut Media

Transcript


Straw media. Martha Peck is on
better together within another and she's gonna make

us so much better with a step
by step guide to how to live with

integrity in your life. Oprah calls
her one of the smartest people she knows,

and we get to talk to her
and you guys get to get smarter

to learn from her. She really
talks about integrity and about the process that

you use to find your sense of
purpose and emotional healing and how to be

free of mental suffering and really just
live your best life by by looking at

yourself in an honest way and treating
others in an honest way, and gives

us all sorts of tips on how
to do that. And this is something

you don't want to miss, I
promise. Let's get better together. We're

together. Hi, everybody, welcome
back to better together with than an heather.

Today we have a show that I
think fits right in line with exactly

what we've decided to do with better
together, and that is to bring on

the experts, in this case a
doctor of sociology, is an incredible speaker.

Um Writer, author calls her the
smartest person she knows. Oh well,

okay, today, you guys here's
a gift. We have Dr Martha

Beck, the Smartest Person Oprah knows, to bring to you. I have

to take it right. I don't
know how you're going to introduce her in

less than an hour, but go
for it, Martha Beck. She fields

three degrees, a B A and
M A, and a PhD from a

little old school called Harvard University.
She is a world renowned coach, speaker

and writer for the Oprah magazine.
She's authored several books and her most recent

book, the way of Integrity,
is a New York Times Bestseller and an

Oprah Book Club selection. We're so
grateful to have you here today. Welcome,

I'm so grateful to be here.
Thank you so much. And today

we want to focus and ask ask
the question, how can you align with

your inner truth, to find the
path to integrity, to step into your

full capacity and infuse more joy into
your life? And that's really what your

latest book is about and what we
want to dig into today. Absolutely,

I don't know how it began.
I think one of the most difficult things

to do is to give people a
guide to how to take on the responsibility

to say I want to live integrity, I want to live with intent.

I want to know how to do
that. And what you do is break

it down into four very specific categories. Would you like to describe your book

and how it how it how it
came to you, and then we'll kind

of dig into to how you began
your journey in this incredible life that you're

you're offering you can to give us
some of the wisdom of today. Thank

you. Yeah, cool Um.
First of all, I just started out

my life very unhappy and wanting to
be very happy for Ye, just for

about thirty years. It didn't take
long. So I was looking for any

way to be happy and the word
integrity, the way I'm using it here,

means being whole, becoming a whole
again. So integrity just means intact.

And I felt shredded and I didn't
know why. I just knew that.

You know, when an airplane is
not in structural integrity, it will

crash, and all the structural integrity
means is that all the parts work together.

So I thought, okay, I've
got to find integrity, but I'm

completely in the dark. And then
I read, Oh you'll all be familiar

with this, the divine comedy by
Dante, and it starts out in the

middle of my life. I came
to in a dark wood and I had

lost the right way. I didn't
know where I came from, didn't know

how I got there, and that
really grabbed me. When I was eighteen

years old. I remember thinking,
well, that's how I feel. So,

you know, a million years later
I come around to writing a book

about integrity, after I've worked with
thousands of clients and everything, and I

went back to Dante and I thought
he really kind of broke it down.

So there are four parts. One
is where he's in the dark and he

doesn't know what to do. The
next is where he goes through hell.

He has to go into himself and
find out where he's divided from the truth,

because that's what's hurting, is that
division from the truth. Then,

once he knows the truth inside,
he has to behave differently outside. So

once we know our truth, like
in the in our therapist's office, the

challenge that is to go out and
live it with our friends, family,

the public, you know, against
possible pressure, because the moment the only

reason we lose integrity is that we're
pushed to do so, um by socialization

and sometimes trauma, but those are
inflicted by other people. So when we

get our integrity back, we're going
to face pressure from the culture that made

us lose our integrity. So,
in my case, I'm gay. I

thought I was straight until I was
like thirty one, and when I realized

my true identity, I then had
to live it, and that is what

Dante calls purgatory. You're you're working
your way towards your truth, and then

the top of that it's a hill
he has to climb. You start to

get it starts to get easier and
easier, and then there's a place where

everything comes into harmony and clicks together
and you find your integrity and from there

on there's so much joy, there's
so much efficacy, there's so much miracles

started happening. I did not expect
that. I just I just did this

for the book. I thought I'm
gonna be in total integrity. I don't

need to do any of them woo
woo stuff. Guess what? You get

into your integrity, you start manifesting
things like there is no tomorrow. It's

really the way. So that's I'm
gonna put a pain in you for one

second. First of all, we're
gonna stop with miracle. We're gonna start

with integrity and Dante, and I'm
gonna tell you the our audience, but

including me, knows why. Why? Hope it calls you the smartest woman

in the world, because after about
Dante and getting into the dark forest where

like Beep, beep, beep beep, help us out. So what I

would like to do is first to
find, and one of the things I

find is the most a miracle about
you, and I always say this to

love as a science. We are
here to study something. You're trying to

make a logic for us out of
what integrity is, and I would like

to go back to the beginning of
integrity and say, could you define for

us what integrity is? Why do
we want to be on this path?

Why are we willing to go through
the darkness? Why are we willing to

get through up to purgatory to try
to live through it? To get us

to the miracles and kind of break
it down a little bit, because I

think our audience right now is just
in the journey with us. We're saying,

yes, we want to love,
we want to know how to do

it. Yes, we want to
tell the truth, we want to know

how to execute it, and you
are really giving us the third component,

which is to identify that. If
you want both of those things, integrity

is the pathway to living. It
is that does that break down for you

to how tore so. So what
I'd really love for you to do is

break down integrity for us and tell
us why we're going to go through this

journey with you, why you want
to read your book. And I just

got to tell you, guys,
you do not have to read Dante,

because Martha has broken it down for
us in her book so that we can

all understand those pathways. But I
want to, I want you to identify

integrity. It really feels like the
active participation of love and truth. Yeah,

you don't even have to put in
this stuff about Dante. So integrity,

a lot of us kind of hear
it as a Sunday school word,

like you've got to be nice and
it's kind of puritanical and Yucky. That's

not the way I mean it.
The way I mean it is simply coming

together to work as a whole.
So integrity means intact. That's the literal

meaning of it. And if our
true selves are being reflected in every part

of our lives. We are intact
and we're born that way, where all

every baby is born completely and totally
herself, for himself, for themselves,

but probably before they even have language, where we were all pressured away from

our true selves, from our nature. We were pressured by the people around

us, which I call culture.
And and every single one of US gets

split into that way and we don't
even know it happens before we have words.

So then later we're just walking around
going why don't I feel good?

Why? Why? Why? Am
I looking for myself? I mean where

could myself has gone? I have
gone. We know we've lost ourselves,

but we have no idea where to
start looking. So when you're out of

when your life is out of line
with how you feel? For example,

you have talked about growing up in
the Mormon Church and feeling that the Mormon

Church treated women like second class citizens
and their views on women didn't align with

how you felt about yourself. So
is that? Would that be an example

of not being in alignment? Perfect
example, and and you know, sexism,

racism, all of that stuff bothered
me. But even when I was

a little kid, before I understood
those things, there was a feeling that

things weren't working right inside me,
that I wasn't like. I tried very

hard to be a good girl.
Nobody comes out of integrity because they're trying

to be evil. Everyone does it
trying to be good. So they were.

It doesn't even get to the point
where you're talking about religion. It

can just be a good girl behaves
this way and I want you to behave

like a good girl, and so
you do what your parents say as a

good girl, but you feel bad. You've left a part of yourself to

please other people, and that split
feels like suffering. I think all psychological

suffering comes from being split from our
true nature, and at first it's just

this pain. We don't know where
it's coming from, and that's what makes

it so hard to fix. What
did you have? A family that surrounded

you, and I don't know how
how deep you want to get into what

the culture of mormonism was for you, but I mean I of course,

I've been very interested in this.
I myself was raised in the religious cult

that was. It was very sexual
cult. I was abused for Beers and

all of our audience knows that.
That's what I talked about. Getting on

the other side of our abuse,
and I think you and I are in

line a lot about what we say
about the separation and distinction of ourselves away

from that. Once we are given
something that's not ours. And talk about

what goes in Um into yourself,
I say whatever goes in feeling bad,

it's not yours and you have to
figure out how to give it away and

and and give it back to the
where it belongs and then you can release

it. It becomes a bad of
Gav honor and I think you speaks with

a lot about that and what goes
in. Where you surrounded by a family

that was at all understanding of what
you were going through? Were you in?

I know that you were in a
position where you were being mistreated and

I don't know how far you want
to go into that. was that a

part of your mental split and your
drive to become and get on the other

side of it and become something new? Yeah, I was raised Um,

my siblings and the seventh of eight
siblings and I felt very loved by my

siblings and they were all kind of
struggling. We were all struggling. We

didn't know why. Um, I
remember having nightmares as a three or four

year old about Jesus coming across the
eastern mountains and all the other people being

lifted up to meet Jesus and I
couldn't be lifted up because I was bad.

There was something bad about me.
So that's just this basic thing that

religions teach little kids that they're somehow
bad. So there was that, and

my siblings were in it too.
I was sexually abused by my father,

who was this sort of Um,
you know, epic figure in Mormonism.

My siblings don't agree with me on
that and I haven't spoken to most of

them for a few decades. Actually, it's kind of a pattern, don't

you think? Yeah, I was
a huge loss, but not as huge

a loss as losing your entire self
to a set of beliefs and and practices

that are being foisted on you.
That clearly caused suffering and I think you're

so right. And if it hurts, it's not your truth. Well,

it's not your choice. Certainly,
if you had a choice, then we

wouldn't make the choice to have something
going feeling bad. We're all. Are

All of your are all of your
siblings still a part of the church?

They're not so much. I mean
I recently found out that a lot of

them have have sort of fallen away
from it, but they haven't really reconnected

with me. And what I did
was a betrayal. I wrote a book

about Um Mormonism and about my history
of abuse, and that was such a

violation of the Family Code that I
think it's sort of just broke those relationships.

I have the same exact thing.
The reason why I'm asking you such

specifics is because I think people need
to know that when you this is the

pattern, the sameeness that that I
share with Martha is when you do this,

when you tell the truth, and
you are so ostracized, and it's

not just in a religious setting,
although I do feel like there are a

lot of children who have been sexually
abused that has been shrouded in the lie

of the religion that they have been
um doused with. That gives them the

right to say that we're not,
we're not in the truth. They are,

and and I and I really appreciate
that your courageous enough to tell the

truth about that and the result of
it, because I think the more of

us that say so, the more
we'll be willing to share Um. So

I appreciate that very specifically Um.
However, I do want to share as

well. This is not just about
a religious upbringing and Martha saying that too.

This is about anything that separates yourself
and distinguishes yourself from the suffering self

and the one that lives in love. How did you start to find yourself

and your path in that obviously world
that was not being supported, into the

incredible scholar that you are and get
yourself to Harvard? Is that the next

question you wanted to ask? I
feel like I was guided by the something

that guides us all, and that
is suffering. I mean, I know

that sounds kind of paradoxical, but
I think if we were anything less painful

than suffering, we wouldn't go to
the trouble of figuring out who we really

are. So, like what,
I went through a number of forms of

suffering and since I've been a coach, I've seen this in a lot of

people who are split. And the
first thing is you're just you have negative

emotions, you feel sad, you
feel angry, you feel afraid all the

time. Then you get physical symptoms. By the time I was eighteen,

I was already in like a back
brace and on crutches for reasons nobody could

understand. Later was diagnosed with a
lot of autoimmune diseases. Then your relationships

start to go wrong, then you
can't push forward with your career. Uh,

you may get addictions, and all
of these are the result of trying

to ease the pain of being split
from yourself. So again, I didn't

know that was the problem. I
didn't know I was out of my truth.

I was just hurting enough to go
looking, and that leads us to

our truth. Would now be the
appropriate time to talk about because I'm very

curious about that year of not lying
that you did and to get to get

in line with your integrity, you
decided that you were not going to you

were going to be truthful about about
everything. Can you talk a little bit

about that? So, yes,
I did something I called my integrity cleans

and this is when I was twenty
nine years old and I have since done

it many times. Um, I
called it an integrity cleanse, not that

I was cleansing away integrity, I
was cleansing away everything else. And my

first thing was just like, okay, I was trending nine years old and

they said all these wisdom traditions were
telling me the truth will set you free.

So I was like, okay,
I won't lie for three sixty five

days, not once, not in
any way, and I do not recommend

it. It set me free,
it made me a happy person today,

but it is not the easy way. I did not tell a single lie

for a year. And you probably
think like, sitting here, I think

like I don't tell lies, but
then you think about it and there's probably

like different ways that you aren't truthful. Right. Yeah, a little white

lies. I mean, research shows
that most people lie to each other three

times in every ten minute conversation.
Wow, but it's just polite. You

know, a lot of it's just
politeness. I wasn't cheating on my taxes

or my husband at the time or
anything like that. I was just um

telling. I was like, Oh, I'm fine, when I was not.

So I stopped that and lost my
you know, my religion, my

family of origin, my whole community
of origin. I realized I was gay,

so that in my marriage. I
quit my job, my industry,

didn't want to be a professor anymore. Um, lost, left my home.

Uh, pretty much everything went on
too that fire, except my children.

And Uh, the one thing I
got back was my soul. So

it was worth it. Well,
I think it's really frightening for people when

they hear about this. But what? What? I don't like the word

sacrifice very much because I think that
in the journey that I've taken, in

the truth, Um, you only
get and you only benefit out of life.

And you talked about miracles and I
do think that you, when you

start to live and love, you
understand the benefits. But I don't know,

it's a very difficult thing to show
from the outside and I think mark

a lot of what we think about
success means is what happens from the outside

in. And you and we talk
about that too. So you're talking about

all the things that I would say. You know, if I'm a person

who just lived my life the way
that it's supposed to be lived and I've

lived in my foot in the fundamentals
of a good Christian life or a good

but you know, a Good Samaritan
would or my parents told me I have

a good house. I do.
I do want my family around me,

I do want my church around me
or my mom right social group. I

do, and you gave up all
of that. So from the outside end,

that looks like, Hey, man, I don't want to be a

part of that, like you.
No, no, thank you, and

you're saying, well, I got
my soul. So one I wanted to

understand what soul means and what that
what that gift is that you received and

the power of that gift being bigger
than all of those things that the outside

they say, we're crushing it.
And I also know that you use one

of the words you know that I
really like that that we've spoken about a

little is that is the hustle.
Once you're not getting all those outside things,

Um, the way that you want. So I want to talk to

about the soul and why the hustle
to get things rather than the soul is

the wind, and the wind for
you and why you talk about it.

Yeah, the Hustle. It's so
interesting. It's one word that had five

definitions when I looked it up in
dictionaries, and they were these were the

definitions. Okay, the first one
is to just move rapidly in a certain

direction. Second one is to push
someone else to move in a certain direction.

The third one is to make something
happen by force, the fourth one

is swindle or cheat, and the
fifth one is prostitute oneself. So right

there. People say you've gotta have
hustle. Well, there's some. What

kind of hustle do you want exactly? And and and, yeah, I

use the word prostitution and I don't
mean to say anything bad about sex workers,

but what I mean is you sell
bits of your life, you sell

yourself for something that you know is
not actually worth yourself, and that is

other people's approval or even money.
You take a job you hate and you

get money for it, and you
go to work every day and you get

money to that supposedly makes your life
good, but you're in Hell because you

hate your job, or you're in
a relationship where you've sold out and you're

miserable. But it looks good and
that's all you're getting from it. And

if that's all you're getting from it, your soul will not lie quietly down.

It starts to raise a RUCKUS.
It tells you things are bad,

it creates illness, it creates addiction
and it says get me out of here.

I'd be surprised to know how many
people are probably in that too.

Write how many Americans are are in
that? I think it's I don't think

it's just our country. It's probably, it's probably. Well, I mean,

they live differently in other places.
I feel, like America specifically.

It's really Um. Yeah, there's
different reasons. We are a big hustle

country. The American people are big
on on selling out to get glamor and

wealth and fame. Other countries can
be like very restrictive in other ways.

Um, you know, restrictive politics. Right now, we're recording this right

after the supreme court overturned row versus
way. That's not a hustle thing.

That's restriction by government of personal freedoms, and that's why it feels so scary

and horrible to so many of us. And you know right there, if

you've got that feeling in you,
this scary horrible feeling, is because part

of you is saying no, you
can't actually lie down and accept that and

stay in your integrity. So,
yeah, it's a scary moment and all

countries have it. Yeah, right, that is actually a great example of

feeling out of whack with it because
it doesn't reflect how we feel. Yet

it's been forced upon us. Right. Well, I mean it's really shocking.

I mean, people went through this
with the vaccine, and I don't

need to bring that up again,
but it was a personal right that you

had to say no or yes,
and then people were saying whether or not

your opinion on it was one there
or another. The fact of the matter

was they were saying you have to
put something into your body and if you

if you don't agree to it,
too bad. You can't get on an

airplane, you can't do the things
that we now. That's a personal right.

That is further, it is different. I'm just saying I understand that,

but you're still saying that you need
to do something and if you don't

agree with it yourself, you have
to do it anyway. We just had

some laws turned over in Florida and
we are now. We are now.

We now have a system that is
saying, whether or not you agree with

it or not, what you do
with your body we're going to take control

of and it's beginning to catapult itself
into other arenas and areas where, basically,

what we're doing is looking back in
time rather than looking forward, creating

and generating something that is in forward
movement, and we're looking backwards and saying,

you know what I want to do, I want to go dig up

the thing that already had that it's
already been made forward and we're going to

push it back, which is the
exact opposite of how the universe works.

The universe works in forward motion.
It cannot look back, it doesn't go

G I forgot GRANDDAD's, you know, billionth birthday. I'M gonna go back

and give him a tie. You
can't do that. It's putting things back

in motion and that's really what's happening. We Are we trying to stop the

system of forward movement, which is
called evolution, and we're doing it consistently,

and that's why our voices are so
important to stand up for integrity and

say you can stand up for it, because I think people do feel really

trapped right now. I, as
a woman, feel really trapped knowing what

the hell to do. How do
you we've already stood up. I saw

one of the one of the things
yesterday a woman saying I I stood up

for this already in the sixties.
Here I am standing up again. Let

me start. And how can we
be doing this twice? And why are

why do we want to still allowed
right? Well, why, why can't

you choose? Well, here's the
here's the thing to me that doesn't make

any sense at all. We Are
we are making sure that we don't that

we're taking care of the what?
That we're calling the fetus, the live

fetus. However, what we're not
taking care of us, of our children,

that we send O to war and
we'll put them in the front line,

who are adults, who are eighteen
to twenty five year old, at

the top of their life, at
the top of their game, at the

top of their intelligence potentially, and
we don't, we are not standing up

to not send them to war to
be killed. What we are going to

do? Why? Why is that
something? It's an exact contradiction of what

life is and and I think the
and, and this is this, is

the not making sense. We're not
making sense out of the nonsense and we're

not standing up to make sense out
of the nonsense. And and that's why

all of these things are able to
bubble up, because we're not telling the

truth about what is actually really happening. was actually really happening, is that

we're sending our children to war still, and that is creating disease and hurt

and shame and sorrow in our lives
and we're trying to stand up for ourselves

and we don't know how to do
it, because life doesn't really make any

sense when when we'll kill, our
children willingly. Yeah, the hypocrisy of

the system is just everywhere. I
could you know. That example is brilliant.

I could cite a thousand more.
And the whole thing is that there's

a very corrupt external culture, but
it goes to war on anything that tries

to sort of rock its boat.
So you could get a little kid saying,

wow, I was born a girl
but I feel like a boy,

and people in Congress will be shouting
that that child is threatening their way of

life. And here's the thing.
They actually are. They are because insisting

that people only divide into two genders, assisting that, insisting that marriage looks

a certain way, in parenting looks
a certain way, all of that cultural

pressure is going to be disrupted if
people become truly themselves and begin doing it

out loud, because they will be
empowered. And then, God knows,

you can't overpower somebody who's empowered.
You can't overpower a culture that's empowered.

and talking about living in integrity and
when things aren't aligned with with your thinking

something that I think has come up
a lot in the past several years,

Um, especially with the trump presidency
and now with Roe v Wade and with

some of the laws that were Um, the legislation, recent legislation in Florida

with the don't say gay bill,
Um, has has brought up a lot

of political issues among family and friends
and people that have different political viewpoints than

you and Um, it's a very
difficult thing to navigate. I found that

I was able to navigate through the
trump era without too much, too much.

I just I was able to navigate
it. But recently the latest issues

that have come up are sort of
insurmountable and there's there's people who say,

you know, you just cut those
people out of your life. They're not,

but but it's difficult because there's some
people that have been in your life,

your entire life, and it's do
you have any advice for how is

there a way to continue to have
these people your life and still be in

your integrity? Actually, I am
writing about that subject in the next book

that I'm working on, which is
about anxiety and and there's this huge spike

in anxiety and I think is because
it's what you were saying. The culture

seems hell bent on pushing into every
person's life to the point where we can't

even have an ordinary conversation without appearing
to take sides on some issue, and

it's getting really divisive. So how
do you cope with it? You're as

honest and as kind as you know
how to be, and that's the thing.

It's so frustrating when these issues come
up that we want to go into

an aggressive posture, and I kind
of write about this in the book.

There's a thing called the righteous mind, where it's like I'm right and I

don't care what you say, and
there's no listening to each other, there's

no communication. If you can get
away from that righteous mind and if you

can be present and listen to someone, it may be that you just go,

okay, that's we don't have anything
in common, I will see you

later, and it's not. This
sounds horrible, but it's not that big

a loss because you're just gonna be
arguing the entire time. You have to

grieve the relationship, but it's not
that big a loss. But if you

can get into your own integrity,
which involves treating other people the way you

would want to be treated Um.
Then very often, if you listen enough,

people will start to soften and they
will come to meet you and that's

when minds start to change. And
I just take it as my responsibility to

be the first one, not to
pick up a weapon, but to sit

with compassion and empathy. Well,
I would pick up a weapon if I

felt, you know, for something. I have a brown belt in martial

arts. I would fight if I
had to. But yeah, not to

be the first one to pick up
a weapon, but the first one to

listen with kindness. So if you
see somebody posting something on social media that

you absolutely are horrified by and disagree
with and is remotely racist, you you

don't say anything. You see what's
in your integrity. You go inside.

I mean, for ten years after
I left Mormonism, it didn't feel right

to talk about my sexual abuse and
what I felt were the hypocrisies and Mormon

culture. And then ten years later
it was like now it's time and I

was terrified, but it was time. And that's the thing. Nobody can

tell you for you what act is
in integrity at any given moment. You

have to be so tuned into what
I call your sense of truth and that's

like. I'll tell your listeners how
to feel, what your sense of truth

feels like. This is the statement
that I've found with thousands of people gets

them into truth more than any other. It's really simple. You say it

to yourself silently a few times,
and it's I am meant to live in

peace, I am meant to live
in peace, and if you say it

a few times, your body will
say yes, your heart will say yes,

your mind will say yes and your
soul will say yes, and that's

in Hegrity when they're all saying yes. And then you say and I meant

to live in peace and I need
to let my racist uncle come to my

party, and it'll be like no, or maybe it will be yes,

because he's it's ready for him.
It's time for him to change. Only

you can know and the right thing
to do. You have to choose it

a thousand times a day. What
does what feels true, what feels peaceful,

what feels compassionate within myself? And
then you have to do it.

Yeah, yeah, I mean,
if that makes sense, it's really listened

to your internal self right. There's
nothing else, and I think it gets

to a certain point. I know
for me personally, I got to a

certain point in my life where I
couldn't not listen to it anymore right and

and I think that that's kind of
what happens. I always describe things for

me as as a jar of Jellybeans
and on the last, the last one,

like there was it just fell out. was just no more room to

put it and I was done and
had to and had to face things,

because I think for me, and
I know that this is true for a

lot of people, and we already
touched on it a little bit, that

I think I spent a lot of
my life, Um, living to,

you know, do the right thing, make my parents proud, make my

make my ancestors proud, and and
then you get to a certain point where,

no, I actually want to make
the next generation proud, I want

to make my kids proud and and
that's a different that's a different path than

what you know, and I want
to make myself proud and you start living

for for yourself and for the next
generation rather than for the last generation,

if that makes sense. Well,
I mean for me, it's very difficult

to be in a situation where I
know that I want to change the mind

of the person who has the opinion
that differs from mine and that that's what

you're saying. You know, getting
into a conversation, getting into a thing,

knowing that, even if I come
in kindness or living in loving kind

is this is the is the active
participation of better together, to to try

to enjoin that other, that other
point of view. The fact that the

matter is I do not believe and
I will never believe and I don't agree

that the universe has anything that that
that supports division, because the only thing

that gets us further is a plus
one, and that's just math. One

of the things that I like that
you talk a lot about is math.

I try to break things down in
terms of my own system, is mathematical

in terms of how I'm trying to
further, go farther, and so when

I try to actively participate in conversation
that I differ with Um heither and I

used to joke about words that I
couldn't say before, and one of the

what you know? One of the
words was God, and one of you

know, one of the words was, you know, whatever we could.

I couldn't say what we would look
for different, different definitions. So I

call God Kiki now because it's her
it's her grandfather's name, of it.

But but one of and and one
of these words, and I understand it's

a funny word and it's deposit,
because when I when I talk about thinking

of what you are doing in every
single day from the moment you wake up,

and this is really now I'm going
to go back to your book,

talking about when we wake up in
the morning, and you really talk about

when I wake up in the morning, you want to wake up and get

out of bed and you're like a
cheerleader for yourself and yeah, Wrang,

I'M gonna go. And I thought
when I first started to reading the Bug,

I'm like, okay, that sometimes
I tried that this morning. I

was like, it's gonna be a
good day, we're going to accomplish you're

you go girl, but it was
forced because I was tired. And it's

a it's a it's a it's a
promise that you that you give if you

get through the four steps of integrity. And what I see, and that

is my active participation in that is
and what gives me the joy, and

sometimes it's not that feeling of like
Yippie, I just feel so freaking great

like I woke up this morning I
have a head cold and I don't and

and I've been trying to get rid
of what it. It's not. We

have to remember that we have three
parts of our body that are actively participating,

our mind, as you say,
to solve our minds, our hearts

and our bodies, and one each
one of them can guide the way to

that feeling that you don't need.
It's like one can take up the ore

for the other if if the other
one is feeling down. So to me,

sometimes it's about what you deposit.
Am I depositing the thing first that

I think is going to further the
intention of my day and that can relate

to I'm feeling good about what I'm
doing. You don't necessarily need to feel

like you're just bubbling up, like
you just had the best class of Champagne

and somebody just ask you to marry
them that you really want and your bregnet

and my God, you just got
a million dollars in the mail, which

is sometimes what we think in the
mail. Where do I like to get

in the mail? When we think
about when people are talking about healthy things

or how we want to live our
lives, the inner joy with yourself is,

and I think this is where intent
and intention really come together, in

depositing what it is that you feel
will further yourself and your community around you

and there by further the world around
you and make it better. That is

the core center of what it is
to feel happy. In my personal opinion,

it's that, is the joy that
we're talking about, the centered,

down home feeling that what I am
doing and what I am depositing with my

life and with my intention, with
my friends, with my podcast, with

the Work of art that I'm doing, with whatever it is that I'm doing

with my day, I am I
am depositing what I feel like well further

it, and that intention is,
more than anything, what I get.

That's my that's my hardcore argument for
don't look back at the things that we

have already done to further our communities, like laws that give us the rights

to be who we are. If
we're looking backwards, then that is a

negative on the universe. It is
mathematically wrong. Not is something that has

anything to do with opinion. We
are going backwards in an equation that doesn't

work for society or for our for
the laws of the universe, and that

is negating the universe and the laws
of God and and, and that is

just true mathematics. Wow, actually, I don't. I don't like leap

out of bed every morning. What
I do it in the morning is I

go my soul is always happy and
I hope, how are you doing to

my body and my heart and my
um my mind, and sometimes they'll go

oh, we're not so good and
I think, oh, that's okay,

let's take care of you today,
and then comes the joy. But you're

always caring for yourself. There's always
kindness that's to yourself being kind to others.

If we spoke to ourselves like we
spoke to others, it would be

a good thing if we were as
easy on ourselves as we as we are

on other people, and it's complimentary. If you're trying to force bubblinus and

joy, that's not integrity. If
you find the place where you don't feel

great and you say, you know
what, we're going to take care of

you, and boom, there comes
the joy, that's beautiful. So I

should have said you're tired. I
know you're tired exactly, but you know

what, you're gonna wake up,
you're gonna feel better you've got this great

interview this morning, you know,
today with somebody you're really excited to talk

to and it's going to be great, and then you give yourself a plus

one. I get yourself a clus
one, that you are like yes,

I'm acknowledging who I am. Otherwise
you're hustling yourself. But right there,

right there with me lying to myself. That's the result of living in a

culture where you're taught to be super
bubbly all the time. We're not always

pubbly, but we can always be
loving. We can. We're not always

pubably, we can always be loving. And it starts with ourselves. And

then what happens is our compassion rises
because we can recognize in truth, because

we're calm about our truth, we're
cool with who we are. We told

ourselves we're gonna take care of ourselves. We're not looking to somebody else to

take care of us, because then
what starts happening is then we're entering into

a conversation with somebody else where.
We really hope that make us feel better,

for the thing that we're not to
take care of it ourselves, and

we're waiting for that compliment or that
look for for accomplishment or approval that somebody

else is and then we start feeling
good about ourselves. But, as you

say, the man who got and
I and I love this story. Did

you tell the story about them?
And you're a life coach. This is

something else that I think our audience
needs to go. Let's get into the

life coaching a little bit, as
you're just coaching us on the on the

on some of the basis. What
is what you are teaching as a professor?

That you deny. You said I
don't want to do this anymore.

I want to go into I want
to change this UPP and I want to

go into life coaching. Yeah,
I didn't. It wasn't a choice I

made consciously. I decided I didn't
like teaching Um the same theories over and

over and over. I was excited
by the theories when I learned them and

then I didn't want to keep repeating
over you teaching. I taught social science,

a variety of different social sciences,
and then I taught business school and

that's where I thought, Oh,
you know, what I am interested in

is I'm interested in helping my students
develop their careers. So I made a

career development course and it was very
popular and the students started asking me to

work with them just straight across for
money and I was like what is that

and they said it's life coaching.
I was like okay, and yeah,

it just sort of evolved out of
doing what I really love, and so

the sessions would include. Just can
you give us some people who don't know,

because I think that that concept for
people when they hear a life coach.

What? What is that? Right? Well, I like to say

that a life coach is to a
therapist what a trainer is to a doctor.

So a doctor gets you to healthy
and a trainer gets you to top

fitness and a therapist will get you
to mentally well. But a coach can

get you to top whatever it is
in your life that you want to do,

a top performance, top joy,
efficacy, whatever. Can you define

effectasy for us? But it sounds
like it's a, it's a, it's

a, it's a an effective for
your the effectiveness of your life. Yeah,

we look at the place, any
place of less satisfaction. So if

you feel awful, we try to
make your life feel better. If you

feel great, we still try to
make your life feel better. And the

idea is just that we're on a
big adventure here and why not enjoy it

as much as we possibly can and
leave the world a better place than we

found it and just generally be better
people? I'm trying to think of some

of the things that our listeners might
want to ask you if, if,

if they were here, and I
think that a lot of people struggle with

not really having a life purpose or
calling. Or if if somebody is struggling

with that, with really the purpose
of their life, where would you tell

them to start or what advice could
we give to those people? Boy,

then you absolutely nailed it. That
is the number one problem that people come

to me with. It you'd think
it would be something like, you know,

poverty. No, no, no, it's loss of sense of purpose,

and it's precisely because they've laughed their
true selves, because your True Self

knows your true purpose. But when
you really think that what you're supposed to

be doing is hustling up, you
know, some pyramid of wealth or something,

you don't realize that your sense of
purpose was left back there at the

bottom where your true self is,
and and you suffer more and more and

more as you divide yourself more and
more and when you stop and say,

wait, what am I actually feeling? Do I actually like what I'm doing?

And not just work, but on
a day to day basis. What

do I enjoy doing? What do
I not enjoy doing? This is a

basic principle. Take something you don't
enjoy doing, do less of that,

even if it's just like ten minutes
less of that. Something you do enjoy

doing, add ten minutes of that
and then make that change every week,

ten minutes by ten minutes. I
call it one degree terns and tell your

whole life is filled with the work
you love, the people you love,

the places you love to be.
So I'm never getting on that Peloton.

Amoy. That's a great that's a
great spectrum to think about when we think

of our life as being a whole
piece of Pie and when you know we

don't always have to look at all
of it affecting one part of it.

You know, if we get into
bad mood or whatever, something happens in

our relationship, we can we can
still categorize that, we can still compartmentalize

that, we can still go about
our work and have a and have a

good part of our day. Like
when we learned about getting you know,

take the time to worry. Put
a worried time on yourself, which we

learned from Dr where you take a
time to worry. You know what,

don't worry about it until four o'clock, and then by the time four o'clock

rolls around you've already had such a
good day you forget what you're supposed to

worry about. But also what we
when we talked about paying attention to the

thing that you're really good at,
the thing that you like, and then

all of a sudden starting to develop
those habits. We're starting to get a

real system here on better together,
and I just want to would be so

grateful to you for being a part
of our pool of consciousness. That has

added to the rhythms of joy that
we can have all of these different ways

that we are being advised to pay
attention to ourselves, imagine what feels good,

give ourselves a little bit more of
that each day. You don't have

to. It's not like a change
happens in one day, but it will

happen like but it happens gradually.
You're talking about a one degree. Then

all of a sudden gets easier because
your start to form the habit that starts

to make you feel better, that
feeling better becomes your addiction. So you

want to do it more so that
all of a sudden it's not just one

degree. All of a sudden you're
like feeling five percent better. You're this

given your stuff happens a little bit
more and a little bit more and a

little bit more, with all the
surprising as it happens. Because I know

that I talked a little bit about
how I had to change of thinking in

my life and and I really genuinely
stopped caring what others thought of me,

and that was something that I was
all about and I recently, you know,

really checked in with myself and said, do I care? Oh my

goodness, I actually don't care.
It's so great. I don't care what

you think of me. I just
don't care. I care what I think

of me, I care what my
kids think of me, but I don't

care what you know, somebody that
I don't know, some neighbor, might

think of you know something I it's
it's it's it's a freeing feeling, and

I always put the word respectfully in
there. And somebody says an opinion that

I don't agree with, I say
I respectfully do not care. I respectfully

do not care. I respectfully do
not care, and maybe that goes back

a little bit too to being able
to ground us. I would like to

to get just a little bit of
thoughts on you before before we read about

about what a heather was talking about. We are in a very divisive time

and there are so many conversations that
we're entering where we feel like we're tiptoeing

through them. Or what are there? So maybe there are a couple of

words right now that we can put
put into our I respectfully don't care.

How how? How do we take
this positive positiveness from respect and exactly exactly?

My integrity tells me you're wrong,
motherfucker. Um, of just things.

You're such a delight and and and
such a joy and such a treat

to talk to and I do want
to encourage everybody to get the book on

integrity, but I but also go
to Martha's website, because what's there gives

you. I think you've written out
seven books in total, Oh my Lord,

and about article anxiety. Um,
Oh, magazine articles. You have

a book that is that kind of
combines all of your articles that you are

are some of the most important ones
that you have written on for the Oh

magazine, and really start to pinpoint
for yourself which one of the books,

because you do have one novel,
and I think that's really talking about the

transformation that you made out of out
of the self that was told what to

do and into the holy space that
you are Um and I and I think

that the beginning of that, maybe
reading the novel would will help people understand

the whole of yourselves, Um,
but also look at the one that the

best suits where you are, because
I think you've targeted so many different areas

in the reasons that you've looked at
rather than combining all of them. And

they think that could really help our
our our listeners, beendpoint, which which

would help them the most. Um. And as we go with integrity,

what would you like to leave us
with today, as we go into this

world wanting to be our joyous selves
and our and our truest and most most

integrated selves, with our love for
others? But thank you that. That's

very inspiring. So I said a
little bit ago, you always want to

treat others the way you would want
to be treated. That's the golden rule,

right do unto others as you would
have them do unto you. But

the reverse of that is also true, and this is where I think more

people get mixed up, and I'd
really like to leave you with this.

Do unto others as you would have
them do unto you, and never allow

others to do to you what you
would never do to them. That's good.

That's good. So if somebody is
screaming at you, trying to push

you around or whatever, don't allow
yourself to be treated that way. That

right there where you would never treat
the other person that way, but they're

treating you that way. That's where
you say it stops, and I will.

I will say it calmly and I
will say it firmly and I will

say it repeatedly forever. If I
don't want you imposing that on me,

I stop you. Wow, and
a lot of women don't have that especially.

That's right. That language is really
terrific. That's just really terrific.

This is the line. You are
doing something to me that I would never

do to you, and it stops
right here. Yeah, you don't even

have to explain, just go I'm
out. That's right. About our religion

over here, is no thanks.
No, thanks to that, and you've

given it some eloquence. No,
no thanks. I say yes, at

least you walking out the door.
This is not welcome, a great advice,

because it's behavior against us. Yes, yes, that's still when I'm

working on. Yes, we're all, we're that's why, that's that's why,

exactly, we have such incredible guides
and teachers and professors and just women

of Wisdom. We could not be
more grateful for you teaching us about a

degreaty to day and giving us all
help and centeredness as we go forward with

more courage and more wisdom. Thank
you. So much fun talking to you.

I'm honored to be here. Thank
you. We'd Better Day. Good.

I mean, that is just such
a wild conversation on so many levels.

This is why we do the podcast, is for guests like that to

share with our listeners. What a
what a gift to us and to you

all to Um have had that wisdom
imparted on us all. I took a

lot away from that. Did too, I mean we. I mean it

begins. It's all. It's all
swirling through my head because it's just it's

like from the minute you wake up
in the morning to the minute you go

to bed. It feels like there's
a there's a a system for you to

keep in tune with yourself by checking
in with with with yourself, yourself.

I think that we all know,
if we really just ask, ask ourselves,

we all know what what she's talking
about. You can check in with

yourself and you know instantly if something
feels good or bad or like a lie

or you're fooling yourself or and we
don't pay attention to that. Oftentimes we

tamp it down because we think like, oh, we have to do this,

so let's not even give that,
pay that any mind. But you

actually what if you didn't have to
do that? What if you didn't do

what if you didn't have to take, if you didn't have to take the

things you didn't want to do?
What if you thought about it differently and

reorganized your way of thinking to doing
what felt good to you? I mean,

when you think about this, she
I mean, imagine if we did

this integrity cleanse for three sixty five
days. When she did that, what

ended up happening? Should we try
which yes, when she told the truth.

You know, this is a big
one for me. I lived my

life on telling the truth. I
dedicated. I don't think I lie,

but then I realized I just lied
to myself this morning and then getting out

of bed, and these are the
these are the simplest things that what happened

was that the Klans became all of
the single things that she was lying about

in her life and what she had
lied about to get herself into the situations.

And what would what happened at the
end of that? She found her

soul and she found her true meeting. And look at her. She's the

most successful. She has three doctors, she's written nine books. As she

said, she's a life coach.
She became her soul, became this extraordinary

teacher, woman of Wisdom, the
smartest person in the world, because she

told herself the truth in every second. Do you remember when she said?

Research says that we lied to each
other at least three times within ten minutes

of every conversation we're having. Let's
pay attention to the truth which US slide

in this outro. Well, no, it doesn't mean, it doesn't,

it doesn't mean. It means that
the habit. Well, I mean that's

the habit, but I I think
we're living in a little bit different,

course, and I mean we're at
a higher level. We've gotten ourselves to

the high level I think we might
be were not the average right, I

think we might. Maybe we lie
to each other once in every tenant.

But what we're let's encourage you to
talk about active participation and integrity. Let

us begin our trial run with telling
ourselves the truth about ourselves for three hundred

sixty five days. See what let's
just say day. We can check it

next week. Let's go. Other's
already backpedal like Sho I don't know what

hold on, I mean, that's
a lot. We're not always wonderful as

right there. Right, let's go
for a week, guys. Go for

a day. Tell yourself a truth
for day. Give yourself twenty four hours

to tell the truth. See what
you clear if it's just yourself, just

do just tell yourself the truth.
Tell yourself the trues for twenty four hours.

See how it goes. And a
big, big thanks to our better

together team, Ryan Tillotson, Silvana, Alcohola, Daniel Ferrara and, of

course, and in Heather. If
you haven't already, please subscribe on whatever

device or platform you're listening to this
on. And, as always, see

you next week
Better Together w/ Anne Heche and Heather Duffy
Anne Heche's BETTER TOGETHER w/ Anne & Heather is a space where guests introduce us to the person that makes them better. For me, that's my friend, Heather, and t... View More

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