Straw media. You know, there
is and this fear maybe they'll think I'm
weird and they'll decide like I'm the
purve they can't be friends with. Welcome
to conversations with friends and strangers.
I'm Maggie, I'm noam. In the
show we take a closer look at
the complicated relationships in the Hulu series conversations
with friends. Will meet some of
the cast and crew, chat with experts
and share our own kind of sexy, kind of uncomfortable but relatable stories about
the messy relationships we find ourselves in
today. Or still hung up on sex
and love. Is there a biochemistry
of love and how do we talk about
sex if it's making us crazy with
all these hormones? Dr Justin Lah Miller
helps us answer that question and shines
a light on the role of sex education
and learning to talk about sex.
NAM tells the story we lovingly call the
art of the blow job. Writer
Looks Alptram helps us feel better about our
kinks, and then we look at
the biological and cultural factors that color our
views of sex and love with Dr
Sue Carter, actor Tyg Murphy and Dr
Martha Cowpy. By the end of
today you feel like you can talk about
sex to anybody. It's a really
big promise. No Im here. Right.
Let's recap and the sight later how
we feel. Summer is over and
the final year of university has begun. Bobby moves in with Francis. They've
moved past their fight and it looks
like things are pretty good. Nick is
also back in town and things are
looking good for them too. They're having
hot sex, they're going for walks, they're doing couple stuff. The even
to find what they're doing is a
relationship. Bobby and Francis through a housewarming
party and later on they run into
Melissa at the bookstore and go and grab
a copy with ours. And the
big thing in this episode is Nick Tails
Francis. He wants to tell Melissa
about the affair. Do you find that
most people have trouble talking about sex
with their friends or even their partners?
Definitely their partners. I think people
have more of a problem talking about sex
with their partners than they do with
their friends. That's Dr Ian Kurner.
I think when we're actually getting into
the intimacy and the vulnerability of communicating about
facts with our partners, I think
that's where Shane can come into play.
That's where embarrassment can come into play. That's we're really just from not talking
thinking. We sort of have a
mental model of our partners that might prevent
us from talking. In short,
we don't really know our partners very well
sexually, and so the whole impulse
towards conversation can really just sort of get
obscured and kind of a cloud of
shame and shyness and embarrassment. One of
the things that I've said in my
work before is the people often find it
easier to have sex than to talk
about sex. And here's Dr Justin Lagh
Miller. It's often the case that
when two or more people get together for
a sexual encounter, there's very little
communication beforehand about people's boundaries and limits or
their sexual desires and what feels good
to them, and so they end up
in this sexual situation, physically interacting, but they haven't communicated about any of
what they actually wanted beforehand. And
sometimes it works out just fine because people
are on the same page and they're
following essentially the same script and it can
turn out very well. But oftentimes
it turns out very poorly because people have
totally discrepant expectations about how this encounter
should go or what feels good to them,
and they're expecting their partner to sort
of read their mind and figure out
how to bring them pleasure. And
so when people sort of start out relationship
sexually and they don't have that communication, you know again sometimes that can go
off in a positive direction. It
often goes off in a negative direction.
But if you start out having really
good sex without talking about it, there's
a real risk long term and that
relationship that you're going to grow incompatible and
you're never going to have a discussion
about it and you're just going to grow
further apart and the sex life is
going to wilt to some degree. So
it's really important, I think,
for people to establish strong communication patterns with
their sexual partners, even if the
sex they're having is already great, because
what feels good to you now can
change over time. What turns you on
now might change over time. So
there's this enormous value in sexual communication,
but we just often don't put in
the effort to do it because we're not
a quick with the sexual communication skills
we need. And that's really where sex
education, especially in the United States
is failing us, and it's where diy
sex education comes in. Gorilla sex, said, gorilla sex will not not
like a gorilla, but like gorilla, like chue gorilla. Never mind.
What's it like having sex with the
man likes a penis just not observed.
There's a device with no esthetic relation
to anything. That's kind of its term.
It's much better in other parts of
the world. It is much better
and certain parts of the country than
others, but we really need to equip
people with the skills so that when
they're in sexual situations, they can communicate
it about what they want, what
feels good, what's pleasurable, so that
they can have optimal sexual experiences,
because too many of us are having suboptimal
experiences that are just not fainting her
needs at all. My experience with sex
education was actually surprisingly good, considering
that I went to high school in a
kind of small town in Central California, and when I say good, I
mean it was an abstinence only education. What is sex education like in Israel?
Well, you know, they teach
us about the sheet with the whole
now, honestly, we focus on
about gender in literature, but not a
lot about sex education. So it
was pretty sparse. One thing I do
remember about my sex aid was that
it was very, very heteronormative and it
had literally zero mention of pleasure.
Historically, you know, the United States
has been very puritanical when it comes
to sex, and talking about sex at
all, let alone sexual pleasure and
orgasm and all of these other things,
has been really taboo, and so
just the idea of having any kind of
sex said is controversial. And if
you add in the fact that it could
be pleasurable and that people might enjoy
it, that's a whole other thing and
it's really unfortunate that pleasure is missing
in so much sex education. You know,
it's common throughout the United States and
actually in many other parts of the
world, for there to be no
mention of the clitterists whatsoever in sex education
courses. And it's interesting because the
clearist is the only organ in the human
body whose soul function is pleasure.
Like we don't know any other purpose that
it serves, and yet it's being
totally ignored in most sex education courses.
So it's really a travesty, I
think, in a lot of ways and
it's a big part of why we
have the orgasm gap that we do,
where heterosexual women in particular reach orgasm
so much less frequently than heterosexual men,
and and part it's because we're just
not teaching women about their bodies and pleasure.
Sex Education in the US also consistently
fails LGBTQ, pus youth, with
its neuroscope and so queer kids,
Trans Kids. They're not learning what they
really need to know, even the
basics of how they might protect themselves during
sects. So that is another huge
blind spot that exists in the world of
sex education and actually creates this vulnerability
for more STI is more non consensual sex,
more other negative outcomes to happen just
because we're not teaching these very important,
sizeable populations anything meaningful, useful about
sex. Maggie, where do you
think you learned most of what you
know about sex, if I may ask,
you know, that's a really good
question and honestly, I don't know,
and I also feel like I'm still
learning, always learning. What about
you? Well, you know,
I learned a lot from sexual partners and
I learned also from my friends,
from talking about sex, and I think
I have a really good example.
Oh, okay, friends, family,
this gets a little detailed, a
little explicit. If you're uncomfortable, skip
ahead. I had just started dating
someone that I feel very strongly towards and
also very attracted to, and he
had some athletic sex and he was well
equipped, if I may say,
but also he was uncircumcised and that was
my first experience with an uncircumcised penis. So I was kind of in a
pickle. You know, all the
tricks that I knew didn't work and I
kind of was scared of googling and
I don't know, we were late at
the bar that I was working at
one night. I was with a couple
of colleagues and a couple friends and
you were sitting on the bar drinking and
smoking and just, you know,
three am being, I don't know,
a little, a little tipsy,
and I brought it up and they were
all just so sweet. They just
like, oh, honey, let us
help you, and they were different
ages, you know, different classes,
different everything, and we they each
grabbed like a Phallic object, a cucumber,
Saran wrap, a banana, I
don't remember, anything they could grab
and they just demonstrated, they taught
me, they tell me how to give
a blowjob to uncircumcised penis. So
I'm getting really good reviews, by the
way. That's great. So you're
a five star blowjob. I don't know
five star, but so you learned
this and you went back to this person,
and was he like great, he
was like, I mean, I
just made a look that you can't
see, but he was surprised because it
was very much a jump. Okay, so I have to ask what did
you learn? What did they teach
you? I mean, it's I can
go on and also, I think
I need to demonstrate. Is there one
tip you could share with the listeners? Yeah, just be gentle when it
comes to the foreskin. Not a
lot of pulling. It does a lot
of the work. It's like,
you know, it has its little hoodie.
You know how. Yeah, uncircumcised
penis has come dressed, you know,
at the pole day. So just
you use it. You have to
use if it's easier than it looks, you know, I don't overthink it.
Okay, wow, what about you, Aggie? What about deep what
did you learn anything from your friends? Have I learned anything from my friends?
MAGGIES uncomfortable talking about sex? No, I'm honestly thinking about it.
I do remember talking with many women
about how terrible shower sex is. Like
we're supposed to believe that it's going
to be super hot and it's like in
movies and like, I have never
had pleasant shower sex in my life,
and I have tried, Lord,
have I tried. I had pleasurable shower
sex. Did I ever climax?
No, I can't. I keep thinking
about the water waste. Then it's
a really good point. I mean,
climate change is real, people.
Climate changes real. Were in California?
There's a drought. I think that's
a really, really good point. Guys,
stop trying to have shower sex.
Not only is it not going to
be as good as you want it
to be, but you're also wasting water.
Stop having shower sex. I think
of the planet. So I have
always been very curious about sexuality,
very open about sexuality. I have always
talked to my friends about sexuality.
So for me there's not really a lot
of like stigma or taboo. This
is Lux Alptrum. She wrote a book
called faking it, the lies women
tell about sex and the truth they reveal.
I think for a lot of people
it can be uncomfortable. I mean
especially. I think a lot of
us have this idea that sex is something
you only talk about if you are
about to do it, and sometimes you
don't even talk about it then,
but it's like you just do it and
there's never any discussions. So for
a lot of people it can be difficult
to get over this mental barrier and
this idea, like if I talk to
somebody about sex and it must me
and I want to have sex with them.
But I think when you can get
past that and realize that sexuality is
really important part of human life and
the interest in sexuality or talking about sexuality
does not necessarily indicate that you want
to be sexually involved with that person,
I think you can really get to
the really important and good places, because
when we talk about sex with people
who we don't want to have sex with,
we relieve some of this pressure,
like you don't have to worry will
they think I'm sexy? What if
I reveal something that makes them not attracted
to me? Because you're not trying
to be attracted to them, you can
have a little bit more of a
like. Isn't it weird when isn't like?
Have you ever had this problem?
That you can talk more freely about
things when you're not worried that revealing
something is going to be a turnoff to
someone. It's just a conversation that
can be about. Like sex is weird,
sex is funny, sometimes sex is
painful, sometimes it's uncomfortable something.
It's so many things and I think
like are the conversation of the space we
have with our friends just allows us
to explore it much more fully. Yeah,
even now, I think there's a
certain amount of vulnerability that comes with
it opening up about what you're doing
in your sex life when you talk to
your friends. Right. I don't
mean to like make it sound like it's
easy and effortless. I think for
a lot of us there's a huge amount
of vulnerability, and especially if you're
not sure that your friends will think what
you're into is quote unquote normal.
Like certainly people who have like taboo or
kinky desires, but even people who
just have stuff they're personally ashamed of.
There is always this fear like if
I tell my friends I like whatever it
is like having somebody eat cheese out
of my belly button, they're going to
think I'm gross and weird and they're
not gonna want to be my friend,
that they're going to think I'd like
that gross cheese belly button girl, so
delightful. But if you do like
having cheese eaten out of your belly button,
I support that. But no,
I think you know, there is
this hesitancy because we're always so afraid
that that we're going to be judged.
Are always so afraid that we're going
to out ourselves as if the freak and
the Gross Weirdo, you kind of
added yourself. There no imas having a
potential cheesecink. It would have to
be really good geese. Okay. Well,
we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, the
scientific side of falling in love and
the way our culture influences are relationships.
Welcome back. So we've talked a
lot about sex. What about love,
I ask because in this episode it
really feels like Francis and neck are on
the express train to love town and
what happens when we love someone? When
we were talking about monogamy, we
talked a little bit about those newer chemicals
that make us form social dance.
We learned Oxytocin as the same chemical associated
with maternal love, and with that
in mind, there must be more to
say scientifically about romantic love. There
aren't that many experiments. As you can
imagine, love, falling in love
or falling out of love our periods of
extreme vulnerability. This is Dr c
Sue Carter, a neurobiologist who spent the
last forty years researching the physiology of
love and social bonds, and that,
along with sex, are areas that
we don't do many experiments. In so
called reality programming they get away with
doing some amazing things with human behavior that,
if I is a sciented has tried
to do, I would not be
allowed because of the ethics involved.
fact, I don't know how they get
away with it, frankly, because
if it works, if you form a
relationship, whether it's on television or
or not, it's still real and the
biology responds to it, and the
biology that we're really often interested in is
what happens when the bonds break.
We feel formation of social bonds and falling
in love, but that's kind of
transient for most people. There are estimates
about how many years or days or
minutes you can really have a kind of
high level of passionate love, because
that's a very kind of again, energetically
expensive behavior to engage in. But
the real benefit of love is when it's
working well, there's a sense of
safety, a sense of of pre perception
that the world is okay and you're
going to be somehow benefited by this relationship.
The problems come when that sense of
safety is called into question, and
we'll talk more about that in a
later episode. No, no, no,
no, things are still too good
between Nick and Francis and Bobby.
We're not falling apart yet. You
know so. Instead, let's go back
to show Christian bomb and hear about
the healing properties of love. We know
that positive feelings, laughter, feeling
supported, surrounded by love has better health
outcomes, and I think you know
they're probably is a lot of healing potential
to just being loved and being cared
for by someone and having all of those
important sensations and important emotions associated with
them, with knowing you're secure. And
then, of course, there's a
cultural aspect. How we make meaning when
it comes to love and sex differs
based on where we're from and the behaviors
we were modeled during formative years.
Well, you know we are. Land's
is was a very repressed nation.
Here's Tech Murphy again, a ten with
percentages of that we were church and
state like for a very long time.
Church is lost a told here and
they'd be very few people that I know
that have any interest and being connected
to the church in any way. I
grew up in like a very strict
Catholic like. My father tried trained to
be a priest and we you know, I was an altar boy and I
think that's probably why I got into
acting, because he used to go to
massive be so bored blood be like
got to be much more interesting to be
up there and sitting down here and
I have to listen to this, you
know, and when we were because
there's so much sort of there was so
much abuse. That's obviously come out
in the last few years and it's always
been known, but I don't always
exists. But therefore I think people would
agree that there's there's there has been
great repreap sexual repression in this country and
only now is you see the young
people that's so much freer now. You
know, they have their own anxieties
that are different and all that, you
know, but sexually been much more
liberated. I think I'm obviously I lived
in Berlin for five years, so
you know, once you go there it's
like forgetitive after many year if fulking
seen everything. Yeah, doesn't get more
sexually liberated that Berlin. It does
when they do that really well, and
I love that. I mean that's
one thing I absolutely loved about Germany was
how there's is like a space for
every single human being, for every single
quirk that you could possibly imagine.
There's a space where those fantasies that roll
play can be played out, but
that's amongst people, on your own,
but there's a space for that and
it's and it's a safe space and it's
encouraged. And like their saunas there. I did I really miss the peppers.
There's nakeds on as there, you
know, like in the northern countries,
to have that as well, obviously, and I love that because it's
that's not sexual. That's just naked
bodies. Sorry, everything is sexual nice.
So nothing that knows going on.
My God, that's absolutely beautiful.
Of course you're looking at seeing beauty
around you and all that, but you're
not walking around with a horn in
a SAUNAOKA is. That's not that's not
okay. There's a place to there's
another place to do that's called sex book.
Yeah, I mean so I you. I don't think you could have
that experience here in orange. You
couldn't have a sauna for that, like
a mixed sauna, because there's there's
still a lot of shame and guilt,
Catholic shame and guilt carried in our
I. Sub Conscious, in my opinion.
So in that way, to said, it's kind of like a backlash.
Maybe you know this. This like
openness, especially in like Irish,
you know, younger maybe I people. Yes, definitely. I think a
lot of people left here because of
the because you did the inordinate amount of
abuse to took place. HMM.
And yes, that's a hundred percent backlash.
Yes, definitely. For that reason, the landscape here is changing and
there will be a time when it
makes SUNA will be set up. They're
already here, they're already here,
but they're not as like it was.
It wasn't it wasn't unusual to be
going to a sauna every two or three
days to fucking relax, you know
what I mean? But that would be
unusual here at the moment. You
know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,
there's still kind of a lot of
like, I feel like a lot
of push and Paul and Irish politics
right now, between the conservative and the
more forward thinking worlds. At the
moment it's not under some fucking boringly by
binary, isn't? Yeah, sure, really like it's it's just a discourse
around it. We you know,
the discourse just needs to get a little
bit more open, doesn't that?
People just need to talk, people like
to argue. Obviously it's go crack
Ries. Well, you know, I've
friends who are very different views to
me, brice either. They were order
other end of the spectrum, but
they are so much fun to be around
because they're liberated in their thought it, even though I don't stand by them
and I wouldn't be fucking marching with
them for anything, you know what I
mean? Yeah, for there,
you know, they would be much more
conservative than they right. My God, they're fun to be around. Yeah,
you know what I mean, and
we can find in middle of the
ground where we go, like if
we just we're just we're still having the
same experiences in the same feelings,
you know, so at least we can
talk about that. You know,
they would think that I'm absolutely bat shit,
like yeah, yeah, the same
experiences, but it's important to talk
about that's that's how we can move
forward. It is and it's important to
identify the places where we where we
are similar on most of that is in
bounds within love. I think you
know, because it doesn't matter what your
politics are, which of views are, you can still still know what it
is to be heart you still know
what it is to be loved. You
know. So that's a that's human
condition, isn't it? To be alive.
You're experiencing the world, you're sharing
fucking breadth with me in this space.
Something else to keep in mind.
Regardless of those larger influences on our
beliefs, in choices, ultimately we're
each living our own unique lives. There
are clearly cultural differences, but I
operate so much on individual differences because I
hate to paint with too broad of
a brush anyway, and I would say
we're all socially constructed and we have
a sense of what something means and every
single human being is going to have
a unique way of making meaning of things.
That's Dr Martha Cappy. I think
we could probably find an exception to
any cultural assumption. And for me
and my work it's very important to me
to help people figure out actually what
they want for themselves and that's quite a
deep inside dive. You know,
to get in touch with your your own
self, even if you're not sure
you're going to get what you want,
even if you care very much about
somebody who's not going to like hearing what
you want, but to actually figure
out what you want is the cornerstone of
everything that I do. How to
show? This show is hosted and produced
by me, Maggie pulls and me. No, I'm get wiser. It's
written and edited by me, with
assistant editing by NWAM. Our supervising producer
is Ryan Tillotson, with help from
Tyler Nielsen, Frank Driscoll, Nick Bailey
and the entire Straw hut team.
Theme Music is by Maggie Glass and square
fish, and big thanks to Ariab
shy, Lauren Thorpe, xavior Salas and
the Hulu team show