EPISODE 9: 8: If there’s one thing you can say about facism, it’s that it had some good poets.

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Show Notes

What role does it play in our relationships? Can it be a form of courtship? Music Supervisor Juliet Martin and director Leann Welham take us through the process of marrying music to the show. Noam tells us about the time she texted a link to Total Eclipse of the Heart over and over again and it worked. And a story about the sweetest mixtape that you’d probably never want to hear.


Straw media. Music is so visceral
and that's the beauty. I've actually,

you know, almost put any other
art from in one sense, music and

spires. You know that that creative
process, because it really does in a

way that I just yeah, I'm
a joey and a super fan join a

newsome. I'm a huge Joanna newsome
fan because I'm like a mass. I'm

a Super Fan, a join a
newsome Super Fan. Welcome to conversations with

friends and strangers. I'm Maggie,
I'm the Lam in the show. We

take a closer look at the complicated
relationships in the Hulu series. Conversations with

friends. Will meet some of the
cast and crew, chat with experts and

share our own kind of sexy,
kind of uncomfortable but relatable stories about the

messy relationships we find ourselves in.
We could talk about a lot of stuff

this episode so much, but because
Maggie's obsessed with John A newsome, we're

going to take this opportunity to talk
about music. What role does it play

in our relationships? Music Supervisor Juliet
Martin and Director Leanne while I'm take us

through their process of marrying music to
the show. Then we learn that texting

total eclipse of the heart over and
over and over again to your ex is

an effective way to get them to
come back. I mean it was a

temporary solution and a story about the
sweetest mixtape that you'd probably never want to

listen to. But first a quick
recap. Francis and Bobby Attend Melissa's book

launch and Francis Gets Very Jealous.
She tries to use bobby to make nick's

jealous, but bobby draws a hard
boundary. Bobby ends up bringing the pair

tender home and Francis hear everything right. She downloads tender. Nick sends her

a John A newsome song. She
goes out with the tender match. He's

very normal for but she sleeps with
them anyways. Right later at dinner,

Philip Learns about the relationship with Nick. He thinks Francis has been taken advantage

of. Francis goes to next and
she tells him about sleeping with someone else.

It's contense. They go upstairs and
as they're getting ready to have sex

they fight. Francis says she's in
love with him but he doesn't feel the

same. She stormed out. The
problem is not you're married nick the problems.

I'm in love with you and you
obviously don't feel the same. Booky.

She gets home and she looks for
Bobby but she's not there. She

stays up all night writing a short
story that dance. I'd read the book

a couple of times because it was
so I'd in the book club and it

was on our book club and then
I ran out of books in the House.

I just had that there. So
I said, this is all before

even talk of the series. So
I read it again. So I made

even read it three times. I've
read that great. So I said this

pot yeah, yeah, this is
music supervisor, Juliette Martin. We asked

her about the process of creating music
for the show. I mean I think

you know, when you start off
your much more generally like, especially after

reading the script, you're kind of
just it's quite a nice time because you're

just really freely, kind of just
putting in ideas as of this big playlist

and I'm just throwing in ideas and
it doesn't have to be like super kind

of honed into a scene yet.
It's just based on I feel, and

I find it really hard to descry
what it is that I might think okay,

like it's only aren't the early after
the series is done and you can

look back and go, okay,
that's that's the tone, you know,

and we definitely didn't have any big
right it's going to be this, you

know, I think it was just
sort of response to the materials. So

so Juliet had this playlist and she
sent it to Lenny Abramson, the primary

director of the show, together with
the editor, Nathan New Gent, who

had his own mass of playlist,
and we just sort of ended up with

this sort of huge playlist and you
know, a lot of the tracks that

end up on the series are on
there and it's really collaborative. Everybody can

suggest a piece of music that will
work and you know we have a song

from the producer Emer Norton, lots
of suggestions from Nathan and Lenny and then

then, more specifically with Leanne on
the other block. I sent a big

EMP three playlist to the editors so
that they can specifically put the music to

the picture. So obviously in spotify
you're not directly doing that, you're just

listening and sort of thinking about it
for scenes, but that allows the editor

is to to sort of actually set
it to picture. Yeah, I mean

music is a big part of it
for me personally. Here's the end.

Well, I'm she's the director of
episode six through ten. I'm a big

music fan and I but when I
listen to music it I find it quite

inspiring and certainly when it gets to
the edit. You know, I think

using contemporary music has been a big
was a big part of the show.

Obviously I used it really effectively normal
people and I think it's something else that

obviously felt like the right thing to
do in this show as well. And

My editor, Sarah Bates, who
worked with me on on my episodes,

brilliant adds. She's also in a
band, and Americana Band. She like,

very knowledgeable about music. So we
really enjoyed that process of thinking about

what songs could go in over what
moments and obviously completely changes the move of

a over seeing one song you kind
of choose. So it's a big it's

a big part of that of the
feeling that you're trying to achieve. So

that was really fun and we loved
it just kind of coming up with ideas

and trying them out and I'm really
happy that some of my choices made it

into the final part. I'm curious
about that. You in a newsome song

because in the book it's not specified
which song and then in the show it's

peach plumper. I'm a huge chow
in a newsome fan. was that a

Sally Rooney choice or was that something
else? I just love that song.

I think it's so beautiful and so
odd and it sounds kind of strangely wistful

and very romantic and it just felt
right that nick would send her the song,

especially that he sends her this song
kind of a time when they're the

relationship is is not quite clear what's
going on and they sound it slightly distant

and it just felt very just something
that nick might do just, you know,

send this song like just that Moro
instead of, you know, something

more clear then, more clear and
message. And then of course there's the

amazing cover by the mctag twins.
We were really lucky because Sarah, my

editor, found the beautiful cover that
comes in later on a new episode of

Peach Fun there, which is such
a beautiful interpretation of the song. You

see and bobby and it was really
lovely to be able to have that song

kind of come back and the inner
morse, something more wornful because of sad

way, just worked perfectly. What
was going on? Were there any songs

that you knew right away you wanted
to find a space for in the show?

Yeah, I mean there there's this
Irish band called why were and Lingo

and they have this beautiful song called
used, which closes out the first episode,

and they just got these amazing harmonies. You done. There's another one

called not by Julianna Barrick and yeah, just when I heard that, you

like even before I'd read the script
or before I'd seen it, but after

I'd read the script, I kind
of knew that that had some just the

something in it that felt right for
the series and we ended up using that

and two different episodes, so in
episode three, I think, and then

an episode five when Francis has had
the fight with the book agent, and

it doesn't even have any lyrics.
It's just it's just got something about it

that's kind of this is too kind
of vocal repeat. It just seems to

work really well and I'm really yeah, I guess the team seemed to connect

with it as well and it's been
news really nicely. Sometimes the first choice

is the best choice. And sometimes
you just wistfully watch the train pull out

of the station and say goodbye.
Well, there was caroline polit check song

door that I really loved for episode
two. I mean, what's there is

amazing as well, but that that
was one that I loved. I love

the lyrics. So when she's saw
the train and she's the lyrics are kind

of like, you know, leave
your judgment the door. I mean maybe

maybe the decision was because the debriks
were too on the notes. So yeah,

that was one that did I really
did like. I think people did

like for a while, but it
ended up and ended up going to another

another. Yeah, there's always you
just love to put out everything that you've

ever loved into things, but unfortunately
that's just not the job, you know.

Yeah, yeah, you're really subservientto
the picture, you know, and

what works for it best. We're
going to take a little break, but

when we come back, should we
talk about the fight? How about you

tell your story about your musical communication? Then we talk about the fight and

then we hear a very sweet story
about a playlist as a form of courtship.

Okay, deal, welcome back.
Today we're talking about music and the

role of plays in our relationships.
One thing that makes me such a Rudy

nerd is that when I read conversations
with friends the first time, it felt

like she was writing pieces of myself, of my life, and there well,

specifically a messy relationship, and well, that was the same one that

filled most of my time in pairs
and apparently is filling up most of this

podcast. On Tuan, you and
Antoine were dating while he was living with

a long term girlfriend. Right.
Yes, they had been together for nine

years. At that point, I
was invisible in his life to anyone else

and we weren't facebook friends or anything
like actually, quite the opposite. His

best friend used to come to the
bar and drink and tell me that Antoine

had a big Ruesh on me.
Every time we were on the outs,

he would post a song on his
facebook wall and it was global, like

open privacy. We would know that
it was directed to one of us because

it would be the only thing that
showed up on our wall. So this

was making an assumption that you were
both checking on each other's facebook pages.

Oh, we were. Okay,
we were. We were both obsessed with

each other. So he would post
a song and then I would see it

and I would post a song and
return and we would rekindle things and get

back together. So I have a
compiled the list of some of the key

moments our relationship. And March two
thousand and fifteen and Toowan and I were

just staring at each other, talking
or just staring at each other, trying

to figure out if we could have
an affair. He asked me about kids.

It was too much and I say
never mind, go back to your

friend. And March twenty two thousand
and fifteen, he posts a team in

Paula Song. The less I know
the better, because by the bar I

show my tight an apartment and we
sleep together. After a bit of that

he starts rethinking things and I got
really hurt by that. He texted me

long text and French. I texted
him long texcellent English. Google translate his

third wheeling hard and we stopped talking. On April ten he posted stand for

by ty Dolla sign and it did
it for me and we in it got

going again. But then I got
a little bit about and I give him

a soft older meetum, which is
he can't come over if he's still with

a relationship with someone that isn't me. After about a week. I keeped

in and on April twenty five two
thousand and fifteen, I post the smiths.

I know it's over, and then
two days later, on April twenty

seven, he post Judy, don't
go by the dirty fences, and it

kept going throughout our relationship. On
January twenty two thousand and sixteen, he

posts bamboo by a long Chamfa and
to which I replied, posting, I

know it's over. On January thirty
one two thousand and sixteen, our biggest

fight was when he finally left his
girlfriend. I was speaking French Bay then

he Texas, saying Pomo de Vite
Bois Lad and you like. He was

like, give me tickets for Israel, I'm moving out. He he would

leave me homemade cookies outside my door
in the morning like we really were finally

just him and eye in a relationship
without this you know, third person existence.

And but as you were going closer
and closer to Israel departure date,

he started to kind of like fall
apart again and he was depressed and guilty

and insecure and had second thoughts about
about us, about going to Israel,

and I was I was devastated.
I was so tired at that point.

I was just an emotional wreck and
I just what I did that day.

I went to work and it just
started sending him youtube links to Kitchi s

songs like one per hour for about
eight hours, and then afterwards they just

sent him total clips of the heart, again and again and again, like

a fucking maniac. But I couldn't
make him hear how much that hurt me.

But Bonnie did. He he came
to his room and Oh, it

sounds like you guys had kind of
the same slow burning tension and lack of

communication that Nick and Francis did.
I mean nick is a better communicator,

but yeah, for Nick and Francis
we start to see that tension build up

while they're at Melissa's book launch.
It look good together, don't think.

I mean they're a goodlooking couple.
They look Frank. If I was in

a burning building, it was only
me, Nick and Melissa, I ken'd

save her, wouldn't? I don't
know, Francis, it's just like pothetical

question. But this is in this
amazingly am any green dress that's absolutely fabulous

and just powerful, and she's a
center of attention, red lipstick, and

then you know, Francis is in
her little really quite cute pinaful dress and,

you know, I think I'm the
costumes were really, really helpful and

really effective in accentuating those kind of
moments, in the emotions that are going

on there. The way they did
this scene, you know, the way

it was shot, the sound,
the writing. It feels really authentic and

also really inside of Francis's perspective.
As the episode progresses. I feel like

it's so easy to go along with
Francis on her insecure, Jealous Journey.

She's hurting and so, rather than
talk about it or even really examine it,

she just gets kind of mean.
She's trying so hard not to be

vulnerable, but she can't help it
and it builds and builds and bills until

she just explodes. I love a
character that can kind of push you that

way. You know, you're not
quite sure whether what she's doing is right.

This is producer genie, I go
but she's you also kind of can

forgive it because she is just growing
up and making mistakes and you kind of

like can relate. You can relate
to that the characters, the way that

they talked to each other and the
Fed the fact of being being so inside

Francis's head so fascinating. And Yeah, screen lights is on on. This

show did such a brilliant job of
externalizing that so that you still feel that

you're really tied to her point of
view. It's like very subjective, but

obviously without the need for so the
horrible voice I though. Yeah, thank

the God of scriptwriting that they did
not use a voiceover. That would have

been really unfortunate. I totally agree. And actually another Irish project that came

out Belfast, that movie. I
loved that movie so much, except for

the voiceover. It just really drove
me crazy. Voiceover really has the capacity

to undermine a story, oh one
hundred percent. But sometimes a voiceover is

necessary, like in this next story. At the time I just mound to

La and just fresh off next year
long relationship and I went ready to jump

date, date, date, they
date, and I went on kind of

arbitably. I went on one hundred
dates with people. This is my friend

Catherine, remember her from episode two. This story takes place many, many,

many years after the secret three way
makeout sessions in drama school. I

had so many good dates. They
were also fun. I meant so many

nice people, most of my didn't
want to see again, obviously, but

you know, it was just I
was having a ball. I met Sam

even actually, just in our brief
text exchange on the APP and then off

the APP. I was showing it
to people going is that? Is it

just me, or is this person
just the perfect person for me? My

losing my mind? I don't want
to lose my mind and that that feeling.

Oh God, I'm a grown woman
and I think I'm following bananas in

love with this person, and I
used falling bananas in love with me.

It was their first Christmas as a
couple. They'd only been dating a couple

months and Sam had a great idea
for a Christmas present. I'm he recorded

his thoughts and feelings on top of
the plane. That's so he would come

in with an introduction with some Glenn
Miller playing beneath it, explaining what he

was going to do and that,
and went through a list of I'm not

like regular playlist, amount probably the
like twenty songs. Are So important songs

to him. But what I loved
about it was the a cutting in and

out. He didn't let the songs
play forever. You know, it was

a particularly embarrassing song from his childhood, perhaps, to limp this kid or

something of that hill, and would
set the scene of where he was in

his life when this song was important
to him. Who introduced it to him,

how it made him feel, what
it was like to listen to it

now. It just really took me
on a musical journey and it was and

he was really good at it and
them and it was another, another major

green flag for him that most of
the artist on this playlist where women.

Do you know what I mean?
Yes, that you felt he felt a

deep connection to Annie, to Franco, really talk about what her music meant

to him. You know, P
liked. God, Yes, give me

this guy. Well, it's not
just going word. It's like a song,

but it's like it's like a ten
minute long. Oh and it's called

Serpentina. This is Sam. Obviously
he and Catherine are still together and and

I always, always want to like
record a mixed you really want to,

like when you're high school, you
record mixing us and imagine that people really

understood what you meant by it.
And I was like, well, that's

like I want to do that,
but that's so silly. That never work.

So I just like basically made by
a podcast for him like walking something,

walking, walking patrons, the experience
of like why these songs are not

even particularly the best songs that I
know, but really like formative songs.

I think really what it is is
that a lot of times people want to

show music and imagine that it's like
going to inspire the exact same emotions and

I'm like, that's never that's never
happened. I know that I feel like

art, I like movies, the
music it's like I connect to it sometimes

for very specific reasons and I need
to like explain by myself and that when

other people do that for me it
enhances the thing. You know, it's

like you can be some death metal
band, but if somebody can tell me

what is that they love about it, what they the way that they find

parts of themselves, and it enhances
the experience that list. Great job on

that gift, Sam. It's all
worked out pretty well. They worked out

incredibly well. My good this baby
looks good. Baby. She's so horrible,

so round faced and a beautiful and
I love her and I great outfit

to Sam and Catherine had a baby
last year. Her name is sally.

It's how to show Em. This
show is hosted and produced by me,

Maggie Bowls and me. No,
I'm gadwiser. It's written and edited by

me, with assistant editing by NWAM. Our supervising producer is Ryan Tillotson,

with help from Tyler Nielsen, Frank
Driscoll, Nick Bailey and the entire Straw

hut team. Theme Music is by
Maggie Glass and square fish, and big

thanks to Aria A, shy,
Lauren Thorpe, xavior Salas and the Hulu

team at show.
Conversations With Friends & Strangers
Welcome to Conversations With Friends and Strangers! Join Maggie & Noam as they take a closer look at the complicated relationships in the Hulu series, Conversati... View More




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