Hey everybody, this is keener and
this is KK. This week on our

live reddit talk we were joined by
the wonderful and talented Rachel Berger, Co

writer of the season one finale and
Co writer of episode four. It was

really fun too, because listeners of
the show got to speak directly with one

of the writers. People ask some
great questions and maybe Rachel gave away some

clues. We're doing these live reddit
talks every Wednesday at three PM Pacific.

Each week we'll do our best to
bring on some special guests, so if

you're free, head over to the
link in our show notes and join us.

Now. Here's the conversation. Can
anyone hear me? We can,

then. You sounded wonderful. Nice, Nice, nice to you're your voice.

This is Oh, I look forward
to this everyone. Thank you.

We love to hear that, even
the we love to hear it. Right,

we love to hear it. Oh, it's such a highlight. It's

such a highlight. Oh, hello, everybody. Hello, we're back,

we're back, we're back and you're
back for more. It's exciting. Thank

you, and we're on episode for. Just watched episode four. Everybody here,

there, here's look at you.
So if anybody hasn't, I'm going

to give the you know, disclaimer. Do not listen to this until run

right now, watch it really fast
and come back exactly. There's so much

to unpack in this episode. WHO
still be here? Right? So we're

just gonna start. We might just
be. So here's looking at you.

It's so interesting because, Um,
when KK and I talked to the writers,

we talked about you know, the
the end of that sometimes is here's,

here's looking at you kid, which
this is a lot of parents and

child kind of theme throughout the season
so far, and especially here, Um,

here's looking at you, when we
talk about K K. You know

what we talk about when we're looking
at you without you knowing. What's that?

Oh, you old people's old people. Yes, and we actually actually

asked the writers, right, we
asked the writers, Um, if they

ever looked through a people without somebody
knowing. They didn't tell us, you

know, they pleaded the fifth Um. So, so, K, should

we talk about? Who? I
think? I think we might have someone

who has a question. Oh,
that's all right. Well, actually,

this is ray. Marie is actually
our special guest for this episode, and

I actually was not given the true
identity Oh, I don't know if you

or Straw media wants to introduce Ray
Ray Mary, because they are our special

guest for today. Ryan, are
you on? Did you here? I'm

here. Do you want to do
the honors? Oh, sure, I

would love to. I don't know
if people have had a chance to listen

to the podcast that dropped this morning. Um, but we have here with

us the very lastly in talented Rachel
Berger, who wrote the season finale of

season one and episode four of,
UH, season two. Rachel, that

is Rachel. Welcome, don't be
shy. Rachel just got to be muted

or something. That is going for
me to a mute their. See,

I did the same thing the brilliant, hilarious Rachel Burger. I can't believe

I was. Actually I was in
such a sleuthing mood yesterday last night that

I was looking as like Ray Marie, who he I was looking at the

writing credits for the fourth episode.
You didn't get it? No, I

actually didn't think it was Rachel,
but I was like good, but I

like Marie's her little name. Yeah, I can ask her Um, but

we're still waiting for her. But
she's just we're texting. I'm trying to

we're trying to figure this. Okay, figured it out. So Rachel.

Rachel actually wrote this episode with Valentina
Garza. So you can also hear on

our podcast the interview with both of
them. So you want to be sure

to check that out. It was
interview. It was they're they're wonderful.

But should we just want to should
we do our guesses? You want to

see and then we'll get Rachel and
then we'll answer those questions, because that's

what we want to do. Um, do you want to go a first

K K with on our podcast?
Each week, keener and I called,

we have a thing called who done
it summit, where we guess who we

think the murderer is based on what
we've seen so far. Will you write

it down on a piece of paper, we seal it in an envelope and

we reveal it to each other for
the first time on the podcast. So,

Tina, for this episode, do
you remember who you picked? Yes,

I believe I did. Howard Howard. You know, I did him

last year and I'll just continue to
go against the grain and do just every

single time. I've been wrong with
Howard. Yes, and I mean you

know, it's funny. Howard,
such a lovable guy, but so many

people for hour just it seems like
there's something off with him. He's a

little demented in some way. I
don't know what it is a facade?

Yes, so we have no idea. But with Howard, with this one,

okay, spoiler alert people. So
just know, Um, you know,

in this episode, with the passages
and everything, you know, someone

sneezes right at the end and I
just I just feel like Howard has a

lot of issues and maybe he's got
issues with allergies or allergies or something,

and I just feel like Howard has
all that because he probably takes shots even

though because he loves cats so much, he takes shots even though he's allergic

to them, because that's the kind
of Guy Howard is. He just you

know, that's what I feel.
So he probably has a lot of issues

with those things and Um, and
you know, I'm just gonna pick Howard

anyway until I'm right, until he
murders somebody, until he murders someone that

season ten. It's like, Howard, please already kill someone. It's a

horrible way to think. Go ahead, okay, Kay. So my guest

for episode four it's a it's a
little outside the box, I'll admit,

but I picked theo, Teddy's son. Uh, so, uh, Theo

and teddy from last season, who
were both caught smuggling the jewelry and fencing

it and selling it and everything.
Um, if you recall, they had

that secret room and their apartment.
So I'm like, maybe Theo knows about

the secret passageways as well. Maybe
he bumped into that when they were building

that secret room. I also think
that he could be framing the trio for

revenge for sending he and his father
to jail, and I also think he

could be selling that painting for money, since his father is going to be

in jail and he doesn't like him. Yeah, jail he'll have. He'll

have financing for the rest of his
life with a million dollar painting. It

kind of ties up those little things. You know what I'm saying? Yes,

yes, yes, and but no, no, no, no,

no, no, I'm probably wrong. I have to tell you someone wrote

in and you're going to give them
the how to send it. He doesn't

email, but someone wrote in and
said it was very interesting that maybe the

person in the passageway is not the
same person because who killed her. Just

was interesting because they said when when
they opened the door, when she opened

the door, bunny, she recognized
the person. And now they're in full

black attire and like why would they
hide their whole face and everything if they

already were seen? It was it
was an interesting I'm like, oh,

but they could have been wearing all
the black clothing and stuff, because we

didn't see who. We're used to
wearing masks, so you know, maybe

they would just wear a mask or
for make sure they don't get covid or

anything. But we want to hear
what the people listening right now. They

think the murder is based on this. Yes, we we're waiting for the

Awesome Rachel to come on board.
Yes, please, somebody, raise your

hand. Don't be shot. Somebody
right there, there is someone. I've

sent an invite to you, calm
struggle, so you do have to accept

it to come on stage, please, thing excepted. Yes, please accept

it, calm struggle. But in
the meantime I was wondering if you would

be open to Um me reading off
some of the theories from the discussion thread.

M Yes, absolutely so, Um, definitely a lot of chatter on

the discussion thread right here about having
the attacker and the murderer being two different

people. People support that theory,
right. And and it was the knitting

needles and a knife. So there's
two different weapons. Exactly which one?

Which one did the deed? Yes, UM, two very interesting ones.

There were a lot of votes for
Howard so keener, you have a lot

of support. Finally, er,
yes, but there was also a couple

of of Um, really interesting theories
I want to bring up to get your

thoughts. One of Um was a
theory thinking that the killers were actually meant

to kill Oscar and they miss.
They Miss. They mistook bunny as Oscar

because she had that that's that.
You know, that's interesting. I never

thought about the Oscar still in the
building. We don't know, but she's

but interesting. That's a good point. that. Oh, why did the

why did the writers already put her
in that Hoodie first? Because she wanted

to be accepted by them. She's
gonna wear it. But that could be

a really good reason, because someone
is mistaken identity. Yeah, a lot

of people supported that because they thought
they nothing on the show is unintentional and

it was a bit of a random
story point for bunny to be wearing that

Hoodie. Yeah, yeah, right, because it's not just like I said,

oh, she they asked her to
put it on and she's trying to

be accepted and be friends with them, but that's that's just a kind of

a surface thing. Right, and
then it could be right. Everything has

a purpose and that is really good, I think. Yes, yeah,

so that was a really fun theory
and in the discussion I thought would be

fun to bring up. And then
the other one was about Sinda, because

back in season one Sinda introduced the
trio, or I'm sorry, the neighbors

across the hall from Charles introduced them
to Cinda because their kids are in the

same play group, and then place
got introduced. She mentioned that she would

play with the girl across the hall. Yes, there's there's some chatter about

that, that connection of Lucy knowing
the people, of Sinda and Sinda being

there the night of and Sinda now
raising her profile potentially being the killer.

You know this this series is actually
more like a serial, you know,

in the in the sense of if
you look at season one, some of

the things continue into season two and
you know, nothing stands alone except for

KK. Sadly, sometimes on the
Saturday. But Um, but I think

that. So it's really you know, I really do want to go back,

because every time I hear something I'm
like, I just want to go

back and skim these other ones from
last season because there are things that continue

into season two. Some things are
wrapped up, some things continue, and

that's really that's that's how maybe that's
so deeply so terrible with technology, oh

my gosh, but you're here.
We're so happy that you're so many other

things. Ryan was like, do
you ever read it? And I was

like I normally just like creep but
I do think I have a log in.

So right, what's everyone ready to
murder? We're here, we're here.

I did not catch anything you were
talking about. So high. We're

just kind of recapping the episode and
getting our thoughts and who we think did

it and we want to hear what
other people who they think did it.

Yes, and do you think did
it? Rachel? Yeah, honestly,

I have no idea. Uh.
Yeah, we're just talking about episode four

and and who we think and some
people think it's Howard and we're just talking

about passageways and Cinda knowing the the
people across the hall from Charles, lots

of different things and talking about how
season one kind of, you know,

goes into season two with a lot
of things in a sense, such as

the neighbor of Charles and the daughter
played with, you know, with them,

things like that. So we were
talking about that, how those things

kind of go and which would a
writer really you gotta gotta kind of let

the flow go right. Wanted to
know. I literally am having flashbacks.

So like the writer's room and like
this is all what we talked about too.

It's just like do we show them? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

there's so many layers too. If
anyone has questions for Rachel Berger, the

right of the episode, that was
a great time to ask. Yes,

let's do it, people. We
do have calm struggle on stage three,

who is compatiently waiting, so construable. If you would like to a mute

yourself, to ask a question,
give a theory, the floor is yours.

Oh my goodness, I am not. I am not one of the

people on the show out on the
street with a sign, but I feel

like those people right now and someone
of the someone re that we posted a

combination of the word Arconia and catacombs
and I was like, Oh my God,

we just made up a word,
catacombs, but that's hilarious. I

live on catacombs because then you can
throw the cat, the cats in there

for Howard, what were you saying? I was like we actually like had

Oliver Call it the arcatacombs at one
point, like when we were having fun.

So you are that, and that's
from a writer herself vibing, vibing

with the Oliver Line. That's one
call Um. And then we were like

he probably shouldn't be podcasting about this. So thank you. I don't know

how I'm useful. I'm going to
be, and I apologize to my fellow

redditors and everyone, but because I
have like a million questions and I'm realizing

that most of them are like what's
the answer? You know, like so

I if I ask you, you
know, what does Charles want to ask

Jan or what is he going to
tell her? Um? But that's not

a fair question because then you'd be
giving it away. So Rachel goes to

those kind of questions. She just
goes down out hear a thing. The

good news about it being episode four
is that there it's good that everybody has

questions and more than likely they'll get
answered. You know what I mean.

So, like you don't want me
to tell you. You guys, you

really is there anything to that you
could think of from from any of the

episodes or you want to ask that? You know. I so this is

going to be another sort of broad
question, but it doesn't it seems like

it might be in fair play.
But, and please correct me, mute

me if I'm wrong or whatever,
but have we seen the killer Leonora?

Have they been in an episode of
Season Two? I know that's kind of

also, I don't think we I
don't need to think. I don't think

we should say that. Or we
could say that, because I'll tell you

something. I mean, we have
seen. We've seen a lot of people,

but there might be more. Who
knows? You know, there might

be more coming. I don't know. I'm only on episode four and and

and the rest of my questions will
just annoy everyone. They have questions like

why are the jewelries in the book? Well, you know, let somebody

else go. I will say without
saying is that obviously this is a TV

show and we want you to follow
along. So just along. Oh my

God, so we haven't seen them. But yeah, I'm just I don't

know. Yeah, it's hard to
answer without saying anything, but it's just

you know, we do there is
a method to the mad mess. You

know, I definitely trust that.
Thank you so much. Uh. Did

anyone else feel like a silence?
This is what KK realized before it even

came on. K, I'm very
impressed with you. You did he did

say. What did I say?
Oh, I can't remember what you said

now, it's my bad. Well, what happened at the very end of

this what happened at the very end
of this episode? Oh, so,

are you? Are you talking to
him? You know, play KK,

are you at the very end?
One of you? Either? One of

you. And we've done our episode
for spoiler alerts, so we can say

the whole episode. So like the
very last image we see of yes,

yeah, yeah, Jim Jam right, my favorite lady. Yes, that

and she's back. and Kk now
I can tell you what. What did

you what did you say before that
even episode? I did an episode one

of the podcast. I wondered if
they would bring back Jan as kind of

like a silence of the lamb thing, Annibal lector to get her idea and

thoughts on who the murderer could be
and behold our favorite psychopath. She's very

she's a very charming the psychopath.
I mean, you could tell when we

fall in love with characters, because
it's like we want to see them too.

You know. We just talk about
Teddy and Theo and it's like,

yeah, anytime we can get Nathan
Lane on screen, let's do it.

And and now my favorite thing about
Jan is like she is going to let

her freeque like she's not pretending anymore. So like you're going to see a

different side of her now, because
it's like now I'm like fully realized as

my serial killerself, so I can
just be me. You know, she's

leaning into it. Yeah, exactly, she could just be herself. And

Yeah, and she and she has
so much knowledge to get, you know,

to give. We're to see what
I mean, we're to see what

knowledge she gives. Yeah, well, I mean I just feel like we

wouldn't show her at the end of
the episode and not follow that up.

Oh, I hope not. God, how I mean that? That would

be a buzz kill. I do
that ton. So, Um, yes,

so I this episode. I loved
it. There were so many things.

Like you said, you brought back
Teddy Demons and we got Timmy Lucy

Charles, sort of step daughter and
sexy, but soonest, came back.

I feel like we have all the
callbacks of all the greatest hits, all

the greatest hits. Um. Does
anybody have come on? Step up to

the plate, step up. Just
want to say for all those all the

new folks that are joining Um,
we have with US writer of this episode,

of episode for Rachel Berger here with
us, and so if you do

have any questions about the writing process
or the writer's room or the chaos of

a zoom room, this would be
a fun time to ask and talk about

it. Um. Otherwise, I
think I think there's a few people that

just popped into the chat here.
There is we have read or if you'd

like to a mute and ask your
question. Hi, brilliant show. I

how how much fun is working on
it? How do you get to brainstorm

your ideas and work together, to
collaborate to form such a cohesive masterpiece?

So, first of all, your
voice totally matches your Avatar and it was

my favorite thing ever. Um,
it's it's fun. It's like we just

don't know any better because, you
know, we were writing in a zoom

room during all the crazy stuff happening. So it's like, you know,

we could follow the news or see
what next strand of Omicron is going to

hit, or we can, you
know, delve into murdering people, and

I feel like it was a really
fun distraction and my favorite part about it

is the fact that, like all
you guys are watching it and I'm like,

Oh, this is such a fun
escapism show, and it's like that's

how we felt writing it. So
it's very like surreal to have like wait,

I feel understood, Um, and
I also feel like, because we

were in zoom rooms, like we
all have like a deeper bond than I

feel like when we do it in
person, like we all actually enjoy going

to events, like we're like yeah, I'll see you know, whose house

are we going to be at?
And so it's really fun and I think

we got like a really fun comaraderie
from it. We feel like we're like

living in there. Um, yeah, I mean I need and Marty and

Steve are just like a dream duo
to write forward. So it's like we

have so much fun, Um,
like thinking of jokes for them to say,

and I think I said it on
the podcast. But like every so

often, Steve like we'll pop into
the zoom and like with his band Joe,

and be like here's a ditty I
remember. We're all like, oh

my God, play more. So
it's it's yeah, it's a lot of

fun and and and these right guys, Emmy's. Yeah, those little things,

right, emmy, nominations for season
one. More. You know,

it's a huge collaborative effort. And
the crazy part is it's like not a

lot of us got to go to
New York because we shot it in New

York. So It's like a well
oiled machine and like we were already admiring

it from afar and it looked amazing. So it's just like all the people

that make this show happen getting recognized
as like what's more exciting. You know,

it's not just it's not just our
little room, it's everybody. Thank

you so much, resure. Thank
you a great question. Thank you,

and now we have a stock.
Nineteen seventy on. Like to mute yourself

a stock. Look at that.
Cool, you do seem very duct ductoral.

Thanks for having me. Yeah,
actually, uh, episode for was

awesome. Uh, it was jam
packed with just so many details and so

many twists and and keeping the adventure
going on that. Um, the thing

that really stood up to me was
was the the emotional development of the characters

and their growth with with you know, with Marty's character, you know with

his son and of course Lucy coming
in. How did you, how did

you guys in the writer's room,
balanced that out, Um, and make

the decision really to bring in that
a lot of that emotional growth in in

this particular episode? And again,
it was unbelievable, fabulous. I could

watch it three or four more times
and still feel like I'm not getting the

layers. Oh, you're like Super
Nice. Um. Yeah, I mean

this show we always come back to
what we originally pitched the show as,

which was it's about lonely people coming
together. So we do often get excited

about storylines and you know, we
had so much fun with the our catacombs

and like what, like what what
are they going to see during the peoples

and like we, you know,
we can get really crazy. Wha I

could do because it's a comedy,
but then, you know through drafts and

like okay, guys, we've got
that out of our system. Let's tone

it down. Like what are we
actually trying to get out of the scene.

And you know, their emotional arcs
are probably what fuels every episode.

So it's like we gotta make sure
that we get those down right and then,

like, the comedy will find itself
with, you know, within the

scenario or within the characters. And
I will say we have, UM,

the brain behind it all. Two
is damn fogelman will always pull us back.

You're like hey, guys, that's
funny, but like where's the heart?

We're like, yeah, you're right, you're right, we gotta so.

It's it's everybody's collaborative brains. It's
every you know, it's the master

work of John, who is all
things heart, all things comedy, and

it's the master Dan, who's like
all things heart and comedy, and when

you put that together, it's kind
of what you get. You know,

we're constantly reminded, like that's funny, but let's go, let's pull it

back, and we're like fine,
he can just be in a he can

just be on a Peloton, but
not wearing a onesie. He doesn't have.

That's funny. Yeah, Um,
it already. What a great question

to thank you. It is I
always say this to you guys. I

love the different genres that you because
it makes the layers is the comedy and

the drama and the relationships and yeah, and it's a yeah, and it's

the crime, crime story, and
it's just all just wonderful and it is

all put together with heart. That's
what makes it so great. I think

for everyone it's so and there's actually
this leads to a really great question from

the comments that I wanted to to
ask for you, Rachel from not wealth,

who asks? Rachel, thank you
for joining us. I know the

writers can change from episode to episode, so I was wondering if you could

talk about how the writing team communicates
to map out characters, slash thought lines

and sure the episodes run together so
smoothly. Yeah, I mean, I

feel like every room is different,
but what we did is like we're usually

as a group brainstorming together and,
Um, we're constantly working as a unit

to get to the final goal,
which is obviously like episode ten. And

when you see writers Um like saying
like how I got written by with Valentina

Garza, that just means like we
are in charge with the execution of this

particular episode. So like we were
given okay, like this episode we want

like Um Oliver and will to like
Oliver is going to be questioning his purpose

and you know he's with Teddy and
then will's wanting him. So it's like

how do we get from Teddy to
will? What's that ARC? And then

we knew we wanted to bring Lucy
in, so that was servicing Um.

You know, I always want to
call him Marty and Steve and I know

that's not their names. What I'm
like Marty in Ste Um Charles Story Arc,

and so we kind of all collectively
talk about like what needs to happen,

because it's like, yes, we
have the arc of what's happening in

episode four, but episode four services
a larger arc that is the whole season.

So that's why, like when you
just see written by that just means

like we were just in charge of
execution, executing just this little moment in

time. And my personal thing,
like writing with Valentina Um. We were

just going back and forth, like
she would write Um an act, I

would write an act, and would
constantly be like re editing work and kind

of you know, and our voice
is the voice of the show. So

it's like, Oh, Marty would
say that and ste would say that and

Um, and yeah, and it's
like everybody has their hands in it.

So, like, and then we'll
turn in a draft and then, as

a group, will go through pitch
different jokes, Um, you know.

And sometimes we'll be in the middle
of writing, which happens quite often,

and then they're like, Hey,
we're gonna call you guys back in the

big room, so we're actually gonna
move this character out of that episode and

into this once. We need to
make that work, and you're like,

okay, great, we're gonna make
it work. So it's just a constant

revolving door of like what needs to
happen and yeah, and it all comes

together in the end. So you
just trust the process. We're adding in

a volcano to this episode. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. Don't

tell of so many great questions and
comments. That's really great. And,

Rachel, thank you for just being
so open to everything you're just saying.

So really people are getting not just
educated but interested, you know, they're

so interested in it. Okay,
do I feel like I'm I'm I saying

too much? Your rant is everyone
else is like, oh, please do

more. Absolutely, and Rachel,
this is a bit of a hard question,

but another one from from Hannah lamp
a question for Rachel. Who is

your favorite character to write for?
Oh, that's not hard. Um,

character the right for is Oliver,
because I feel like he's my spirit animal.

Um, but my he's my favorite
to write for because you get to

like say the most ridiculous thing,
like if you have Selina playing kind of

like the dry, sarcastic like I
feel like it was easy for me to

write her because we have similar humor
and Charles is kind of like the straight

man in the scene. So it's
like, okay, I'm gonna bring us

all back to Earth here. But
like with Oliver, you know, we

have him throwing a knife in the
ceiling, only like we were like his

energy could do that, you know. Um, so, and I've been

a huge fan of Martin short for
my life, I guess, because he's,

yeah, been around forever, Um, and so, like it's him

as a human but also his comedic
timing and the way he delivers. I'm

just like yeah, bring it on. Yeah, yeah, but to remember

Jimmy Glick. Yes, I love
Youtube if anyone wants to look that at

Martin Art, Jimminy Glick. Oh, just brilliant, iconic, the iconic

exactly. So, anybody here?
Any other comments that you want to read

for us? or Yes, absolutely
so. This one comes from icy red

rose. UH, since we have
the writer of the season finale, question

about the text message. Did only
Oliver and Charles get a text so far?

It seems like Mabel did not get
one. I know we talked about

it. So I actually I don't
know how to answer that. Yeah,

because it's like I don't know,
like it's you're so far into it that

it's like, I don't know if
that's going to be a thing, but

I think I know that Oliver and
Charles got it. I don't even know

what happened in Mabel's phone, to
be honest with you. So I don't

know. Actually, did you know
that it was to be carried over into

the into the second season? So
it was like crafting like what was said.

We wanted it to be like cryptic
enough, Um, but that scene

was really funder right there. Yeah, it was a perfect season finale.

Thank you. There's just so many
cliffs. You're like this is the cliff,

it's the end, and then,
yeah, another cliff and another one

and yeah, and more. Yeah, matching Martin Short's energy. Well,

if anyone would like to come up
to share theories, ask questions or anything

like that, please hit the hand
icon on the Lower Nav to raise your

hand for a chance to come up
to speak to our esteemed guests today.

Yes, Rachel Burger, episode four
writer and wasn't. I will say if

you guys aren't like wanting to,
I do know that there's people that like

look at the messaging. would be
like hey, they think it's this,

so we'll read it. Yeah,
absolutely, but we do have Nandy Coop

Um on if you'd like to a
mute. Hi. First of all,

of course, huge fan. I
absolutely loved the last episode. Um,

I thought Lucy's dialogue was incredible and
one of the first times I didn't like

cringe at a young person talking on
a TV show. is so perfect.

Um, I really loved it.
It's just too cool. Oh my God,

way cooler than me, that's for
sure. Afraid of her, for

sure. Um, I was wondering
in the writer's room, Um, because

I was actually looking back at the
season one, kind of like murder board

on the Reddit page. It's funny
to look back now that we know what

happened some of the theories seem so
silly, but I remember looking at it

at the time being like yeah,
this is it. Um. So,

with kind of the way the show's
designed in the writer's room, do you

ever like I think, Oh,
this red herring might get picked up by

Reddit or by conversation, like does
that go into the writing process where you

know people every week, instead of
binging it, are making up theories and

maybe do you ever try to throw
them off or try to maybe purposely not

throw them off? Yeah, I
mean I think that just comes with part

of writing mystery as its own genre
anyway, like the whole purpose of it

being a mystery is that like red
herrings are a part of it and I

will say like sometimes you don't realize
you're doing it just because that's the way

the story is going. Um,
yeah, you know that. We put

things in our purpose. We're aware. Thank you so much. Yeah,

of course. I was going to
say we we talked to UH ROB and

Matteo yesterday and they wrote episode Um
Five, and they are at least rob

said that he frequently is like checking. I not tell you what his handle

is, but I do remember we, like we would be in the morning

he's like so, rudd it thinks
it's this and I trying of want to

and he's like I kind of want
to just throw overrandom theory just to see

the thing just like that would have
been so funny. He's so funny.

Yeah, he agreed to join us
next week, so we'll be back next

week with rob and possibly Matteo as
well. Yeah, and then hand.

Okay, Rachel Day, Um,
I don't remember. Was It ben who

said Anagrams as a clue? Just
just any thoughts on it? That antagram

this year, he said he said
Anagram I think that was noah. was

no it was noah. Listen,
and there probably are some, but I

know that we got to kick out
of them last year. So he might

have just been saying that because we
loved all the Antagram happen. He's playing

us to be lying now, to
to throw you off. You know,

I don't know. I like to
call Noah Honah. Yeah, he's Great.

More cliffs, cliffs, N Yeah, another question from the comments,

Um from handle, limp angel and
flip flops has been stuck in my head

for the last few days. Yeah, yes, can you tell us a

little bit about how the song was
created and whose idea was. Yeah,

I know we spoke about this on
the podcast, so I can't take credit

for it. That was Kirker Butler, who was one. I think he

wrote episode nine this year. So
hopefully you'll get to you can ask him

that, Um, if he ever
comes on here. Um, but he

I don't know exactly when the pitch
happened, but we were talking about because

he also was really into the Brasos
of last year, you know, like

the eighties stitch fun action sequence that
we wanted to do with it. So

you know, he gets really into
like the sub jokes and Um Angel and

flip blops came from his brilliant brain. And then Steve Really liked the idea

and was like yeah, I'm gonna
do it, and then he started like

writing Um, kind of like little
jingles for it and, like I said,

he would like pop in the writer's
room and we're like, Oh my

God, please play more, keep
going and yeah, and then it was

just really funny. We're like,
Kirker, did you just like write a

song with Steve Martin? And he's
like and we did. This was Um

Kristin Newman last year when like sting
was like singing a jingle that she wrote

about Tim Konam where, like,
Kristen, did you just write a song

with sting, like it's really fun. Yeah, we delighted it. It

ended up being like exactly as catchy
as we thought it would be. But

I also think it's like in my
head all the time too, so I'm

with you there. It's absolutely and
needs to spotify release. It really does.

Yeah, yeah, it's so funny
and it also was also, I

mean like there was a method to
it too, where it's like, oh,

that explains why he's able to afford
this apartment. So we're like yeah,

way, I know. It's like
just there any particular thing with that

number for you or just it was
just a funny number. Honestly, it

might have just been for the comedy
of it, but that would be more

of a kirker question, because he
well, again, if you ever talked

to him, he has a whole
back story about it. Like yeah,

you know, he tried the tour, but then like something happened with the

Berlin Wall, and you're like what
we yeah, we did last year,

so we were going to catch him
this year. Yeah, yeah, I

asked him all about Angel's flipops.
I'll love it. Do it, Rachel.

I have one super quick question.
Yeah, in this episode they showed

the filming of Brasos through outside filming
some scenes. was that the actual crew

from the show murders and only murders
in the building, like in the background?

Do you know? You know,
I don't because I wasn't on set,

but normally, normally they still hire
people like as background actors, Um,

to do it. So, but
I can't speak to that because I

wasn't on set, but kind of
I was wondering the same thing. I

was like, do I know them? But I personally recognized. I personally

recognized anybody. So I'm gonna say
no. Okak and I were talking about

you know what, if we just
plupped up, we were just sitting there.

The next time, honestly, everything, do it the next start.

Tell you a meeting. We might
see us next eating cheese. Oh my

God, I would love it.
It's funny. Who are those two people

who keep looking at the camera?
Well, actually, fun fact. Last

season, Um John's assistant, Megan, was in an episode as like an

Easter egg during the tattoo scene.
Um something happened where they had to reshoot

last minute, so she like got
to work the counter and like you see

here and we're like bag. Sometimes
that happens. Yeah, Oh, you

know someone which I was talking about, the east eggs in the in the

windows. Uh, did you see
the each episode there's something. Do you

know that? Rachel? Well,
it's funny because it's like I do know

about it, but honestly I don't
always catch them. Sometimes I go on

Reddit to hear what like. Were
you guys found it? I think they're.

There's one, so I'm sure many. No one Super Fan and she

said she wasn't narrated into all of
them she was so excited about it.

And then there was three jigsaw puzzles
and the three pieces and one was missing

or something, and and it was
loved it. Yeah, they get really

it's really cool to see exactly what
they decided to choose. But I remember

last year the one, obviously,
that I caught was like episode eight,

I want to say, when it
was super fans and they had fans on

the on the roof and I was
like Oh, all right, so if

you're ever looking, we're talking about
little little picture things of things like in

the in the windows and the big
getting credit. You a clue about what

it's gonna I think what the main
part of that episode maybe about. Yeah,

go back and look and you can
see now that would be. Yeah,

and I remember that being a calculated
choice because, like, I was

in the producer's office before we started
this whole writing journey and like we were

discussing fun things we could do and
we're like, oh my God, what

if we had a fun title sequence
that did that? So it was like

something that I know John and like
the producers intended on doing and I'm glad

that it executed really well. Yeah, people notice. People notice we love

Easter. Yeah, we do too, and Rachel, a lot of people

on this episode read. We're just
raving about the demons's return. Start wrenching

scene seeing them fight. and Um, a lot of questions came up about

Theo sign language because people are trying
to translate to uh caption it. Wondering

if you what the process was like
writing that dialogue and also, Um,

if there is a translation anywhere,
because I think there are a lot of

people on reddit right now trying to
sleuth some of some some hints that may

they may have missed in that interaction
now. Well, I will say the

purpose of demons is in this episode
was strictly for like the character building for

them. So like the purpose of
like the sever passageways and stuff was like,

you know, what are the things
you're not supposed to see? So

that goes from you know, they're
really like, you know, Nina and

then starting to have sex and you're
like, oh, we shouldn't see this

too, you know, a father
and son having a fight, a gut

wretching argument, and then you're kind
of left with like well, now I

feel bad for him, but I'm
not supposed to feel bad and like,

and you know it, we also
wanted to hume Nice Theo, because,

you know, crazy stuff happened when
he was younger and he's been like sitting

on this his whole life. And
you know, they're minor characters now in

season two, but it's like it
was really fun to be able to kind

of expand like their journey and it's
like what happens once they're like they're not

just villains anymore. Now they're like
people, and what are the repercussions of

that? And we all were joking
about how actually great robbing is like just

a minor, a felony, or
so it's like you barely get in.

It's like exactly what would happen.
It's like you get a slap on the

wrist and like house the rest.
So we're like you're you go back to

your life and then what, like, you know, your business has done,

like the relationship is strained and like
it's Um. I think, again,

we talked about this on the podcast, that you know a big theme

this season as fatherhood, and you
know teddy and Theo or they're really going

through it right now, but it
won't be the last you see of them.

So Um. But I don't think
there's any clues to that. And

when you write him, it's just
more like dialogue, Um. And then

I think Um, he translates it
in the way that UH sign a F

L is Um. But he wasn't
a significant art like I think in Um

episode seven, when it was his
perspective of the episode, it was more

stylized of like we're going to write
in Italics when it's Theo. So we

know that that's a silent part of
the ship. You know, you kind

of do a little tricks like that
in the script, but this one was

just like a conversation, Um,
and you didn't really need to understand it.

If you didn't, because you're not
supposed to see it. You know,

I love it. I Love I
just love the layers of thought that

you put like. It's just so
wonderful. Thank you so much for that,

Rachel. There are more questions from
from the comments. Is Everyone still

have time? I did want to
do a quick time check before we get

into them. Thank you. Yes, we will have to do a hard

out and okay, okay, I
will. I will try to get to

these quickly. Agent Double Zero.
Negative asked. I want to say I'm

loving the show so far, and
it's not even my usual style of show

I watch. I Adore the whole
intergenerational jokes that happened between Selena Martin and

Steve. How much of that is
scripted or is any of it improved?

Again, I love the work you
are doing. Um, I think they

would be the first to say that
they're not. They like they're really old

school professionals, where like they really
want to keep what's on the script like.

I even think when we had jade
lynch, like we always give them

like. Again, I wasn't on
set, but Um, they always like

do what's on the script and then
they get a free one, like okay,

now you guys go. And a
lot of times they'll just stick to

it because they're like I don't want
to Improv or Um, they'll like kind

of change it up during rehearsal.
There's always a writer on set it.

So John or whoever else wrote the
episode will usually be on set and you're

pitching alternate jokes. Like I don't
know if I talked about this last year,

but I remember like episode ten.
I was watching from the Stream at

my house and, Um, they
were like doing the roof scene rehearsal and

you know, Martin and seeber going
back and forth and they're like the pattern

for this is not right, like
does this make sense? And like they

were trying to get a grip on
it and I'm like on the phone texting

John. I'm like have them say
that, have them say this, but

like he goes and runs into it. So like there's a lot of things

that changes in the moment Um.
Sometimes with uh, like punch jokes.

Rob is one of the master's,
Robin Matteo or like masters at this where

like they'll give you a bunch of
alts in the same line and you kind

of just pick which one kind of
works with the scene. Um, and

then sometimes John will text them and
be like hey, guys, I need

a new joke for that and like
they will, you know, be on

it because that's just their brilliant brains
work. But I would say majority of

it is written. I don't think
they do too much Improv is the question

that I was just answering and no
answer. It's so good because I think

that there are a lot of people
that think that there would be a lot

more of improving just because you know
who they are. I'm short, you

know so, Um, it's having
that level of insight is just so appreciated.

So thank you so much. Yeah, no, like someone stop me.

I will say to like they're just
naturally like it's kind of a beautiful

thing. I'm like want their friendship
when they're older, because they just like,

even when they're not like acting,
if we're just like at a party

with them, they like are on, like they're back and forth with each

other. is so natural and it's
just like no, Marty, you have

to say this now and you're like, Oh my God, you're like doing

it all right, like they're just
constantly like in each other's brains that I

just think, even if they were
improving, it just is so natural to

them. You know, they're great, yes, beyond great. Um.

Okay, Rachel, I'M gonna ask
a question. I'm going to combine to

questions because they kind of lend into
each other. The first is from okay

investigator Um, who's flair is tighty
guy, which I love. I love

it. Hi, thank you for
being with us. Quick Question. Did

you already know where you were going
with season two while you were writing season

one, or did you have to
write some bits just cryptic enough to work

with whatever would be decided on later? And, similarly, how be the

half asks if you know what will
happen in season three and if there are

plot points being set up now for
a later season? Um? Well,

I can only really speak to how
my process was in the finale and I

know that, like, uh,
we had like John's favorite thing to say

about the finale was like it'll be
easy because these things just have to happen,

and I'm like John's Um, and
it was just like a really funny

bit that he would do, Um, and the setup to that we we

knew we didn't want to be so
in your face on what happened, because

then we're like pigeonholed to like servicing, like like if we were like jam

does this, and like like if
we had a huge cliff hager and it's

like well, now we have to
justify like why that was there and like

what's happening. And it was like
really liberating to kind of just start from

a fresh slate, because I remember
season one we had a pilot, so

there was things that it was like
okay, why was Tada going up the

stairs? And we're like I don't
know, you know, like the brainstorming

Um. So we knew going into
season two we wanted to give ourselves more

freedom, you know, and I
remember like why did tim have the garbage

bag? It's like why would he
was like, Oh, it's an egg,

you know. And like storylines,
I feel like kind of got Um,

not necessarily written around, but we
had to incorporate things to justify them,

versus like okay, we'll give some
things that can be easily like figured

out later. So like the text
message obviously is like a carry over and

Um, it was just like subtle
enough that it's easy to kind of fit

in the narrative we wanted to tell
instead of being like, Oh, it

has to be Jim because of this, you know, Um. But there's

only a lot of discussion and I
know that John Um, it's all in

his brain, so we just take
his lead on it. Um. And

then you know, going into season
three it's going to be kind of I

would just say wait till the wait, till episode ten and find out,

like a true writer. But I
understand it's got to be so difficult too,

because you are already probably an episode
ten and you have all these questions

coming your way. You have to
like Siphon that out and really only hit

the wall of episode four. So
thank you for a lot of gymnastics.

Last year it was so much easier
to talk about because everything had happened and

I was like anything, and I
went like they completely edit up until the

very last minute, like, I
don't know, like some episode, you

know, like where are we?
Yeah, I was already out of the

bag last year. Yeah, I
could say Janit it right. I mean

it's so true. As as a
as a Binger, this season has been

rough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just started to yeah, one

at a time, one episode of
time, one week at a time.

But even then too, because I'm
like, Oh, yeah, episode three

we can talk about but I'm like
that did they edit something out of episode

three that they put in a later
episode? Like I didn't think about that.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Like there's something that I know we're

because I remember writing them or talking
about them, and I'm like, I

don't know if we got rid of
it or if it's like later. So

it's like, I don't really want
to talk about it. Rachel's trying to

say she is sweating. I'm it's
fine, it's a good thing we are

no video off right now. Right, right, all right. Those are

all the questions, because I can
find a couple of them. Yeah,

really, really great questions, and
I have to say, like being a

redditor and having the Reddit community here
today, like you even saying that the

writers come and check them theories,
I think is extremely validating for a lot

of people and just made a lot
of days, weeks, years. I

mean, listen, it's a like, uh, you know what I mean.

I'm like like sometimes we're so far
like that's actually really good idea.

I'm gonna write that down. Writing
that down. It's what we're always saying

here at we're like come, brainstorm, get ideas, get inspired. You

know, that's yeah, and I
mean we had episode eight last year with

the super fans, and that was
us not even knowing what the show was

going to be, but we're like, you know, every murdered podcast has

its own like super fans, and
then we're like yeah, okay, and

it was like exactly our relationship with
Reddit, like Rachel. That's just so

great about the show is really there's
so many things true to form. It's

just everything to reboot, you know, it's just everything's funny. Yeah,

yeah, we have fun with it. Yeah, Yep, calm struggle.

I love your molement. It says
one reddit rabbit hole at a time.

Exactly, exactly. I almost feel
like like you guys always ask questions like

what it's like in the writer's room, and I feel like you guys are

doing that yourselves. You know.
It's like everybody's like, let's connect this

with this, and I'm like,
yeah, that's kind of power. Days

goes like sometimes, like I remember, like like the why Tim had the

rings was like a huge discussion we
had last year and then it's like you

get lots, it's sucked into the
Y of it and then you're like,

how is it nighttime already? Were
we just talking about the same topic all

day? It was great, great, it's a lot of yeah, these

rabbit holes are deep. Yeah,
get deep they are. Well, we

have intelligent food to seven three on. This maybe our last question, so

I feel free to a mute yourself
when you're ready. Intelligent, good,

no pressure anything. It's like a
q and a or something. I just

really confused. It's a Q and
a. it's it's an open forum for

what is. What is your opinion, if you know this, like,

what is your opinion on the like
Beyonda Devon's case? Like, I've watched

a video on your case and it
made it kind of like felt like and

it went into depth on her life
and I feel like I relate to her,

like my younger self related to her
in a way that like there's a

lot like. I feel like.
What is your opinion on like the beyond

Devon's case, if you know it? I actually don't know it, so

I don't they have an opinion on
it. You should, you say,

if you're interesting, then you should
really search it up on like Youtube.

There's a really good in depth video. It's there's a really good in depth

video on it and it feels in
depth into her life and it's just it's

so good. It's really it's done
pretty well. I really highly recommend you

check it out. Yeah, yeah, I mean we research stuff all the

time, so I'm sure it'll pop
up, but I'm just personally haven't been

familiar with that and I feel bad
about that. But yeah, it's all

good. Okay, so much intelligent
food for the intelligent food for thought,

the entire food for with that one. Yes, exactly. Okay, that

was not not the last question,
because we do have a couple more raised

hands, though, so I'm sending
out a couple of invites to see if

anyone wants to come on the last
one. Come on stage. Yeah,

come on stage. All right,
spider legs or on if you'd like to

Muw. Spider legs. Oh well, oh, Kangaro getting some sun or

something. Can you hear me?
Yes, spider legs. Yeah, so

just give a bit of background.
Yes, spider legs, the old bail

column name from Manchester, UK Um. One thing that really, really interests

me about serial killers is the Mickey
Mallory thing, the natural bone killers thing.

When I read that book absolutely blew
my mind. And all right,

this might be going on a bit
off topic here, but Ryan Giggs is

a football of Manchester United and he
could not be anything other than a natural

bon footballer. And you know when
you meet somebody who you come across and

they might be a natural ball and
cashier, you know he's just really good

at the job. And I hate
to say what, Mickey and Mallory were

just really fucking good at their job, doing what they do. And I

know this isn't about glorifying serial killers
and all that book. People just seem

to find their natural vocation and Mickey
Mallory really did. Do you not feel

that? Well, I don't know
who you're specifically talking about, but I

know because Jan like we talked a
lot about delighting and like Jim becoming who

she really was, because that's who
she is. So it's like when she

finally is like outed, she's like, well, I can just like be

my murder itself. So we're not
necessarily like focusing on serial killers, but

we do. We watch all the
docs and all like the true crime stuff

about them. But yeah, she's
a delightful character of Brad Pitt and Juliet

Lewis in a movie with the Juliet
Lewis was In't it, Halson Stone,

the Directory Ages to watch the movie
if you can pick up the ball,

because it deals a lot in fate
and they knew what their fate was.

They knew that this was what they
were destined to be and you know what,

they were the best at what they
could be. and Ye, off

the show is the wrong profession,
but the thing was a little bit of

something. I'm disactly that into saying
Rachel Burger isn't her right profession writing and

yeah, only murders. Yeah,
Jan feels the same. She thinks she

was, I think, like I
don't know if she had. We had

her say that in the finale last
year, but it was just like,

you know, Charles, like you
were. You were almost like, you

know, you were my favorite person
I've ever had to do this too,

you know, like the fact that
you got away with it for so long,

like yeah, well, those were
I would call those goodie bags for

you. Rachel. Today, slaterday, we were talking about reddit rabbit holes

and we just gave you a couple
to dive into. Yeah, I feel

in life. Yeah, the kangaroo
hole. But thank you all so much

for joining Rachel K K keener all
the team at Straw hut. Um,

the sub really is so excited to
have you and Um, I'm so honored

to be able to do this with
you all. Love, so love everything

that you all are doing and check
out the podcast. Only murders in the

POD and you can send us your
thoughts and theories. I'll give you our

email address, which is only murders
at Straw Hut Media Dot Com. We

want to hear what you think.
Yeah, thank you everyone. Thank you.

Thank you having Rachel. Everyone.
Thank you, thank you. Bye,

all right, bye, guys,