EPISODE 20: The Tell

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Show Notes

Join Keener and KK as they take a deeper look into the life and death of Bunny Folger. Today we'll be talking to the writers of episode five, Matteo Borghese and Rob Turbovsky, as well as Ryan Broussard who plays Will Putnam, and Ariel Shafir who plays Ivan. Plus, we'll hear more from showrunner and co-creator John Hoffman. We'll talk about the Oliver's gift for reading people, Teddy's 20 year f*ck, and Ivan's essential role in solving Bunny's murder.

Email us YOUR theories and guesses at onlymurders@strawhutmedia.com

Join us on the next LIVE REDDIT TALK Wednesday 7/21 @ 3:30pm PT

From Straw Hut Media

Transcript


Straw media. Pretty Deep Right?
I kind of Naw that answer, guys.

It was way less generic than mine. By the way. I don't

know if this affects anything, but
I can't actually hear KK UM for some

reason. Can hear everybody else.
Is that gonna be a problem? Who

Are we? We're a couple of
true crime aficionados, kind of like Charles,

Oliver and Mabel, the three main
characters, and the Hulu original show

only murders in the building now in
season two and we're here making a podcast

about a show where the characters make
their own podcast about a murderer. I'm

your host, Kevin Lawn, and
I'm your other host, Elizabeth Keener.

Why are we here? To solve
a murder and to try to figure out

who the killer is before all is
revealed in the season finale. We may

not be in the Arconia ourselves,
but will get some inside information for members

of the cast and crew and clues
to help us piece it all together.

Today we'll be talking to the writers
of Episode Five, Mateo Borghese and Rob

Trabovsky, as well as Ryan Broussard, who plays Will Putnam, and Ariel

Shaffer, who plays Ivan plus we'll
hear more from showrunner and Co Creator John

Hoffman. We'll talk about Oliver's gift
for reading people, Teddy's twenty year fuck

and Ivan's a central role in solving
bunny's murder. As of now, we've

seen the first five episodes, so
listeners beware, we're gonna give a quick

recap. If you haven't watched,
hit the pause button, stream episode five

now and come right back so we
don't spoil anything for you. We don't

want to spoil it. Episode five
will narrates the opening of this episode and

he tells us about Oliver's keen power
of observation and his go to party game.

Son of Sam Charles asked Jan for
help in figuring out who killed bunny

and she said as they should be
looking for an artist or a storyteller.

Mabel and Alice are getting closer and
while they're on the phone, Mabel discovers

a secret entrance through a floor vent
into her apartment, where she finds the

matchbook for the pickle diner that might
have blood on it. She agrees to

let Alice host her upcoming art party
at her apartment. The trio head to

the pickle diner to look for cludes
I then gives them a list of all

his regulars. At the Party,
OLIVER BRINGS OUT THE SON OF SAM game

and accuses Alice of lying. She
admits she's been lying about her background,

but nothing else. Later Oliver Spots
Ivan returned the envelope of cash. He

follows him back to the diner and
that's where Ivan shows the security footage of

Bunny's last day. She's meeting with
someone and that person gets up and grabs

a matchbook. By the end of
the episode, Mabel and Alice are still

okay. She apologizes and promises to
be honest. Don't we all? o?

K K. But something is still
off about Alice. We see she

has the son of Sam Card in
her bag and will break some news to

Oliver. He got his DNA results
back and instead of being half Irish,

they're half Greek. That's it's not
possible. Is it Greek? No,

I can't. How is this season
compared to last season? For you guys?

Just terrible? H No, this
has been it's been really fun.

This is Mateo Borghasi, one of
the writers of this episode. You might

remember him from episode eight of Season
One. I think we added an element

of difficulty to the process a little
bit, because we were kind of getting

used to the structure and the storytelling
of a mystery and now we're kind of

coming back and we felt like we
could play around with it a little bit

more. One thing they're taking into
account is how people watching only murders respond

to the show. We definitely kind
of like look at what the fans are

saying and kind of consider it.
And it's also given us ideas too,

because I think the fans go off
in all sorts of interesting directions and,

uh, part of our job is
to kind of like satisfy that kind of

urge to be like, Oh,
is it this guy? Is that this

person? What? What were they
doing? Is that suspicious? So I

think it gave us like an opportunity
to kind of lead our audience in unexpected

places and two different suspects, and
I think that adds an element of difficulty

because you have to kind of pay
off all of those little directions eventually or

people are going to get extremely frustrated
and angry at you. But it also

kind of opens up new avenues of
like storytelling Venus. I found it,

you know, as Ben's our friend
Ben Smith, said it's easy. It's

easy, and this is Rob Tobosky. He and Matteo have been writing together

for many years. They're right.
On shows like Silicon Valley, it's always

sunny in Philadelphia, and lady dynamite
just better. It's like it's easy to

write. We were in joking about
that earlier. You know, it's like

you wanted to be different, but, you know, the same but different

kind of as you know what you're
trying to do and that's never that simple.

I guess you're trying, you know, you want to be like surprising

that you want people to be like, Oh yeah, it's that show I

love, you know again, but
not so similar that they're like why did

they do more of these? You
know, but not so different that you're

like why did they do more of
these? You know, it's all about

the tone. In this episode we
learned about Oliver's go to party game,

son of SAM. Here's showrunner and
Co Creator John Hoffman, talking about it.

The invention of our brilliant writers,
Ma Tero Borkasy and ROB Troubovsky.

Um We talked a lot about Oliver's
youth and his time in New York and

when he first met Teddy and what
his life was like and how he was

interested in how he got involved in
this sort of you know, how the

theater director, who clearly was obsessed
on that, also had this other interesting

aspect to him which I like to
get to know when someone's lie. I

have a skill, I have a
I have an expertise about having a sense

for the truth when I'm getting it
and when I'm not getting it. And

the game might look familiar if you've
ever played mafia or Werewolf. It's not

a real game exactly, but you're
right, it's based on you know,

I was there was some New Year's
Eve party I was at once where we

played a similar sort of like murder
mystery kind of game, you know,

and so it was sort of adapted
from that end games like mafia, you

know, a game where you have
to do a lot of talking. So

we thought that would be a fun
way for you know, how's Oliver going

to try to solve this mystery?
That's in a very oliver sort of way

and I think there was elements of
the son of Sam's story that we thought

would be like fun for the narrative
and it opens up like kind of different

ideas and themes that maybe later on
will return to. The OLYTIC. The

son of Sam, for those of
you don't know, was an infamous serial

killer who terrorized New York in the
nineteen seventies. Between nineteen seventy six and

nineteen seventy seven, he killed six
people and wounded seven others. He wrote

crazy letters to the police and in
them he referred to himself as a son

of SAM. Yeah, it's a
very strange case. But something that's kind

of funny about Oliver's game is that
all the players are either the son of

Sam killer or an innocent blonde.
But the actual son of Sam mostly targeted

women with long dark hair, except
for his last victim, Stacy Moscowitz,

and it was her murder that eventually
led to his capture. Very interesting.

And you know how rob was saying
they want to make things the same but

different. In Season Two the son
of Sam game is a bit like his

chorus line auditions for the murderer in
episode three of last season. It is

kk where each person stepped forward and
admitted to the murder and he decided whether

it was believable. Very similar.
Yeah, I think there's something that we

really like about Oliver being like kind
of he works from his gut a little

bit Um and and the kind of
logic of his method like can't really be

questioned, can't? It's not like
purely rational, the way he makes his

decisions and uh, we just kind
of want to honor that is completely irrational

kind of emotional thinking. So that's
kind of a little bit where we came

to it. And you know,
of course, when you're doing the mystery

you're like this should make sense on
some level, but for Oliver, like

we don't need to have that fool
necessarily. It's always a goal that it

makes sense on some level. That's
the goal. John Hoffman goes on to

talk about all of our sense for
the truth and that goes to his theater

direction. I think a director would
say. I can sense that as well,

and you want a director who can
sends the Truth and what feels not

as authentic Um. But here it
related to the obvious sort of where he

where he goes with Mabel and Charles, leaning towards true crime, investigation and

podcasting. So the source of that
and the pride he has in that,

I know this. I know this. I thought that was a really interesting

thing. To take us back into
his history in New York and when he

first landed here and what was his
calling card and around the seventies, the

idea of New York, and looking
at that picture and thinking of, you

know, one of the most infamous
killers in New York's history, and letting

that be a game of some sorts, because the game gets up ended for

Oliver by the end of that episode
in a major way. Just when he

thinks he's he's doing the thing that
he does better than anybody, Um,

and he's knowing when someone is telling
him the truth or not, he realizes

with probably the biggest part of his
life, he's missed it. He's missed

it, and could it be actually
true? We'll find out, but yeah,

that's something. Okay, Summers,
this shouldn't. Is flatlining, but

thankfully Dr Oliver Field goods got something
to jump start its heart. A party

game. Oliver, what are you
doing? Oh, I know, we're

all too cool for this, Mabel, do you know who else thought he

was too cool? Andy Warhol knew
him, taught him how to play at

the factory in seventy nine. This
is demented and I'm in wonderful step one

drugs, but fair warning that maybe
a few decades old. Read. Before

Green, you're Pein clean. Green, before red, your liver's dead.

He's either pushing Benzodreen or penicillin.
Is An innocent game. Now everyone gets

pilled out and prepared to travel back
to gritty, go in your face,

dancing brons on fire. Let's go
next, main streets. Taxi driver,

Mommat's take. Manhattan, New York, city of nineteen. See Blackout.

It's a hot, sweaty summer night
and there's a madman on the loose.

Um. It felt like Martin Short
was really in his element in the sun

of Sam scene with Alice. How
much did he contribute in that and how

much was the writer's room? Well, he's always a really good sport about

uh doing it the incredibly long uh
monologues that we write for him, you

know, and uh he will try
anything, Um, and so I think

a lot of that was as written, especially that big long one at the

beginning. Um. That kind of
starts the game where he comes in with

the pills, which they did in
one shot, Um, which is amazing.

Um. But he really brought we
in writing it. We knew,

like he's gonna bring like a crazy
amount of energy to this, because he

does to everything. So it will
be fun to challenge him by just giving

him an insanely long speech that really
you shouldn't expect any human being to be

able to do in one take,
but he didn't. That's cool to know.

That was one take right. Yeah, I mean it was longer while

we were writing that. Yeah,
like we we really like that was US

paring it back too, because we
were like we might, we might kill

a legends if we make him do
this. It did become like a kind

of impossible. Yeah, like a
tongue twister of things that he's listening just

like nonsense descriptors of New York in
the seventies. It was like three times

it was. It was like considerably
log gard. We're just like this is

ridiculous. I think at one point
we had him saying New York, New

York, New York, New York, New York. We just wanted him

to stack as many news together,
yes, and then that became state Manhattan,

I think, which makes my heart
saying, but apparently that was released.

Like we we had like kind of
a standoff at some point. It

was like a moment where they didn't
make it in or almost didn't make it

in because it was like, well, technically that's a picture from so that's

really square with New York in the
seventies. And I don't know, I

still think of Kermit when I think
of me to the seven. Yeah,

like it's not a documentary. Oliver
uses the game to pull the truth out

of Alice and while he does end
up getting her to admit to Lyne,

it's not the truth that he expects. Sweet Porno Film and You are not

who you say you are. Fine, I didn't go dogs. No one

in my family is rich or is
in the arts. But who wants to

buy Fifty Tho dollar painting from the
door of a plumber for Essex? I

didn't think so. I've had to
lie to create some legitimacy for myself in

this world. And yes, I
get the irony and what I just said.

And now, if you are done
humiliating me, came over please.

Thank you. Alice and Mabel wind
up making up in the end, but

then we see that she has the
son of Sam cards stashed in her back.

Yeah, so it seems there's more
to uncover about her. She was

a fun one to write, because
it is like, you know, when

you're crafting, figuring out, okay, who are these characters who are going

to introduce and what's compelling about them
that's different from anyone we've seen before,

and what are we wanting them to
illuminate about Mabel, you know, that's

really what those relationships are about.
So we're like, okay, here's someone

who's, you know, in the
world that Mabel wants to be in,

you know, and she's such a
different flavor than anything we've had before.

So you could see how Mabel would
um what she would find attractive about this

person who's reaching out to her about
her art, you know, this thing

that she cares about, that she
can connect to, and this is someone

who potentially could lead her towards a
future that she's excited about. It's not

a figure from her past like Oscar
or anything like that. So you you

know, we wanted to really think
about that, like what the promise is

that Alice offers her? I think
we wanted to think about that. Mattel,

what did you want to think about? Definitely not that. Ignore that

whatever that was. No, I
think that's right. I think we were

very like cognizant of the fact that, like Mabel's life had kind of been

interrupted by the crime in the first
season and now she gets to kind of

rethink it all. And I think
Alice is someone who is far along on

a track she kind of wants to
be on a little bit right now or

is considering being on. So,
uh, there's something that Mabel kind of

season her. It's like, uh, you know, Um, uh,

like a life that maybe she would
have wanted, if if she hadn't been

through all of that in the first
season. We've heard from a lot of

fans that think Alice was involved in
some way in Bunny's death and maybe the

disappearance of the painting. What do
you think about that, KK, well,

I think Alice has definitely been the
number one suspect for the viewers.

Um, I think there is a
lot to be said about her art gallery

background that's going to be tied into
that million dollar painting that is missing.

Yeah, you know, I'm thinking
also, I mean I think I've said

Alice once or twice as my guest
for the WHO done its summit, but

I I don't know, is it
too much on the nose? You know,

that's what I want right look for
an artist kind of person and who

knows? I don't know. And
the painting could be a side mystery,

not the murder mystery. Yes,
thing. Well, let's take a quick

break and when we come back,
Matteo and rob tell us about the return

of Jan, plus actor Ryan Hussar. It gives us some insight into the

complicated relationship between will and Oliver.
Jan was reintroduced at the end of the

last episode, episode four, and
in this episode we get a lot of

conversations between her and Charles, really
funny jokes and great lines. Can you

tell us about writing those? It
was something that we like wanted to do

from the start of season two was
to bring Jan back and to have her

in prison and see what she's up
to now and kind of like I think

it was very early on that we
were like, oh, her attitude is

basically like we never broke up,
like we are still dating Um and I

don't know. That just felt,
however, we could get to that.

We wanted to get to that and
it had some touches of silence of the

lands to where Charles goes to her
for advice. I knew the murderer could

be yeah, that was the term
in the writer's room, was silence of

the jam, and we we gotta
play through this and I don't know,

there's just something so fun about like
I can see it for Charles, because

she's so seductive and seems so normal, even though you know she's a killer.

And that's kind of the fun of
it. Like we know that she'll

be able to like say whatever we
tell her, like whatever we write down,

like she'll say it in a way
that you kind of makes sense.

It makes like emotional sense, even
if, like she's behind bars and we'll

kill you if she gets out,
and that's just a wonderful feeling to have,

I think. M Hm HM,
you want you out of them.

That was it I would have.
This is our sparkling banter. I think

we loved right away that idea of
Hannibal Jan just like the pull of her

there was. We had a lot
of fun with that call when he's like

laying on his bed late at night
and she's in uh, in the jail,

and just like making them feel like
they were together in that moment.

You know she's dating an actual artist. No kidding. That's like a criminal

profiling hole in one yeah, but
now I'm not so sure why is.

She's flirting with you. I'm getting
a wee bit jealous. There's nothing to

be jealous about. Also, we're
not a couple. You're a detective.

Look at the evidence. We're a
good match. You brought out something in

my bassoon, playing something. Ferrell. Stop, Oh Charles, he wanted

me to stop. You just hang
up. Um, that was a lot

of fun, like just the way
that you like sort of lose yourself.

It made me think of when I
was in college, Freshman Year, my

roommate, when I very beginning of
freshman year, had, you know,

his girlfriend back in Ohio or wherever
he was from, and just listening to

his end of their phone calls,
you know, of like we're both,

you know, thinking of looking at
the sky together or something like that,

you know, and I was like
I should just steal that, and now

this guy's going to hear this podcast
and hate me or whatever. I'm sorry,

I'm doing it lovingly. I want
to use your name. The plate

of having writers for friends, right, you never know what's going to end

up in their script or their story. I think of myself as like a

sort of like a as a content
vacuum cleaner. You know, there's if

there's stuff laying around in the carpet
of the world, I'm gonna I'm gonna

Scoop it up and then it's gonna
sit inside me until I'm ready to be

emptied out into television. You know, this is a big episode for Oliver's

son Will. We get to hear
from him through the narration and he gives

us an inside look at Oliver's past. We were really enjoyed that relationship in

season one and I think it was
a huge priority to get will back in

the show and I think we couldn't
just replay the same dynamic as season one.

So we wanted to add something kind
of completely new and unexpected and see

how these two characters kind of handled
that, I think. And I think

the question of in what ways is
will Oliver's son? You know, what

are the things you absorbed from,
you know, your father growing up and

peeking around the corner at parties and
the fact that will is now directing a

play and how that makes Oliver feel? I think we're all really interesting questions

too consider. was there ever any
discussion last season that will could be teddy

son? Everything out like expertly,
like every single consideration and question has been

thought of years in, advanced by
US immediately and we know every twist and

tournaments to come. So nothing is
left to chance and everything is thought through.

Is what I'll say. Will,
when Oliver's relationship has taken a big

leap Um from the first season and
I'm not giving anything away, but there's

there's some some stuff about to go
down with those, with those characters.

This is actor Ryan Bussard. He
plays will. Yeah, I was super

excited when you guys reached out.
I was like, I didn't even know

the podcast was going and then you
guys reached out to me. I was

like this is of course there's a
podcast about the murder podcast show. Yeah,

it's very fun. Fact will started
acting to seven years ago after being

a lifelong athlete. Even played short
stop for the Los Angeles Angels for a

few years. And like a lot
of folks and murders, he's a theater

actor. He was casting his first
Broadway show. Take me out just a

couple of years ago getting dressed to
go to my first day of rehearsals and

uh and yeah, that was that
was the day that all of Broadway shut

down the but when Broadway came back, the show went up and it won

a Tony Awards. So from baseball
to acting to acting about baseball. Yeah,

it was a full circle thing.
Yeah, there was a silver lining

to the Broadway shutdown. That only
murders silver lining. This has been a

dream come true being able to work
with Stephen Martin every single day that I'm

on set and I get especially,
you know, getting to be around Martin.

It's like yeah, I don't I
don't have to pretend anymore to try

to be his son. I actually
feel like we have this connection on the

set. I mean we're you know, we have such a great relationship.

You know, uh, for the
days that I work and every single day,

and some days it's twelve, thirteen
hour days. But I even find

myself bummed, you know, once
the day is over. It's like I

don't want, I don't want to
leave it. I don't I wanted to

end. It's such a fun it. I mean I've never I've never been

on the set and been surrounded by
so many people who care about each other.

WHO WHO said WHO WHOO? Who
Light Up once once you come into

the room and everybody just enjoys each
other's company. It's it's really it's a

really, really special show. For
All of you who have been suspicious of

Will Ryan told us about a scene
from season one that ended up being cut

that might have you trust him more, but it was just kind of this

kind of heartwarming scene where you know, I fixed whinnie up and I tell

him you know, she she's gonna
be okay. I was wondering how this

season compared to last season. Uh, this, I don't want to be

biased, but the second season,
I mean there's just so much more,

I think, comedy in it.
There's the the writing. I'm in love.

I was in love with the first
season as well. The first season

was was amazing and get to see
everything and and also see how many people

love the show was incredible. I
mean there was so many people who were

tuning in and watching it on a
weekly basis and I kind of love that.

Like it's not binge wh you have
to it's it's it's one of those

shows that it's it's set up to
make you have to wait for the next

week and people hate it and I
love it. I love the anticipation.

It's all unfolding this season of like
the relationship between the Oliver and will and

now he's getting me involved with all
his his shenanigans, Um, from first

season and and now continuing on the
second season. There is a scene where

will has to tell Oliver that his
DNA results came back Greek and Irish as

expected. Can you tell us about
filming that scene? Yeah, it was,

I mean it was. It was
a huge reveal. Once we we

got the script, Um I had
that came out of nowhere for me.

Um, once, once we all
kind of sat down and read it and

we got to the end of that
scene, I like I think I looked

up at John and I was like
are you? Are you kidding me?

Are you? And like we all
kind of just busted out laughing and then

I just even had this kind of
running joke with the with the cast,

of like, you know how long
I've waited my entire life to play Martin

short son? Now I have to
play Nathan Lane's son. Rough life,

you know. But yeah, it
was. It was an intense day just

because, yeah, we were revealing
and we just, yeah, we wanted

to we wanted to get it right. We wanted that last moment of what

we see at the end of episode
five to hit the audience and be like,

Oh my God, you know,
just because it's such a it's such

a huge reveal. Um, in
episode four when he finally comes back,

Teddy has that that back and forth
with Oliver before he closed the elevator and

he says, I'm gonna Fuck you, I don't know when and I don't

know how, but I'm gonna suck
you. And then it just the next

episode you see how he was and
yeah, yeah, yeah, he's like

it was, it was, it
was took a lot of catch up.

He played the long game. Yeah, end of Teddy is your characters father.

That means you'd have a new brother. Yeah, exactly, you know.

And then is that? Yeah,
and what is that relationship going to

be? Um, yeah, yeah, we'll go. We'll get to unpack

all those daddy issues. I'm sure
you'll be part of the different yeah,

exactly. I was like, if
I'm if I'm the demons, I want

I want do right. Fatherhood is
a big theme this season. Not only

are we looking at the dynamic between
will and Oliver and maybe Teddy, now

we've also learned a little bit about
Charles's father and we've seen Charles as a

father figure to Lucy. Mabel talks
a little about her father too and how

she sees Charles as a father figure. Here's Robin Matteo on the theme of

Fatherhood as parents of this season.
No, I don't have anywhere to go

with that, Matteo, you're a
father. You can say that publicly,

right, yes, yes, yes, I can say publicly confidently I'm a

father. Therefore, I know it
was actually my idea that the characters have

fathers, because before there was some
thought that they had been hatched um or

they had split a sexually, as
Amba would have done, which is very

big. Raised my voice that first
day in the writer's room. Yeah,

and I said they should, they
should have fathers and maybe they have interesting

relationships. And I'm guessing you heard. You heard that. Okay round and

it worked pretty early on in this
episode, Mabel finds a secret passageway into

her apartment with a matchbook in it. She calls Oliver and Charles over.

Is that the matchbook in question?
The pickle diner? Look, is that

blood or is that a spot of
Ketchup? Interesting, tell me, matchbook,

are you clue or condiment? And
their brain storing gradually deep balls into

a very long and ridiculous conversation about
the Iran conscious scandal. Well, Charles,

memory can contain both objective reality and
subjective perception. For example, you

remember being a huge television star,
but I remember flipping pass Brasos to watch

the Iran Contra hearings. So,
Mabel, what do you remember? Not

the Iran contract. That was easy. Rona rain, who I didn't know,

always agree with politically, but who's
acting chops and hair color I respected,

was opposed to something called the Bolland
amendment. WHOA, Whoa, whoa.

He's gipping over the Carter Iranian arms
embark. She doesn't need me to

recap the whole embassy. Stand up
a couple of names to remember. Robert

McFarland and John poindex, and don't
forget winburger and north. I wasn't going

to. Or the Tower Commission.
I wasn't going to. I know all

the players. Raponte Noriega, has
him pass he forgot. Ed meets everybody.

I wasn't going to forget. Ed
meets everybody, but I'll tell you

who we did forget. Fun.
Shut up, I don't care about any

of this. Well, you should. It's worse than Watergate, just not

as interesting. Can you tell us
about the Iran Contra joke, because it's

a it's a very long joke but
very funny, like especially, like worse

than Watergate but less interesting. Like
how did the whole how did that come

to me? Now you're talking about
something I can emotionally connect to. None

of that fatherhood ship, but you
know, that one was, I think

it was. That one was very
enjoyable to write. I think that was.

You know, that's the dream,
is to force two comedy legends to

just say nonsense names from thirty five
years ago at each other at a you

know, incredible clip Um. You
know, there were different versions of it

in in one of the initial drafts
it was like it was like pretty long

and then I think Dan Fogelman read
it and his feedback was like, you

know, I thought I was getting
bored with this, but then it won

me back. So, like it
can get way longer, and then it

got like twice as long and then
it sort of shrank and it was just

like this them having this competition of
who remembers, you know, Noriego or

Ed Meece or whatever. It's kind
of like a version of, you know,

the rake joke on the simpsons where
sideshow Bob steps on like two hundred

rakes and uh, you know,
the first rake is funny, then the

second rake is like less funny and
the third rake is less funny than that,

but then, as it gets longer
and longer, it gets funnier again.

Hopefully that's what we did while teaching
people about an overlooked chapter of American

history. Yeah, we had.
We had like a little line about fun

hall that I'm sad didn't make it, but through one of the drafts,

just like them saying she's the damn
you know, she's triumphantly already did like

a little like like a little per
or something. You know, it's like

she if but what really makes me
laugh in that scene too, and this

is like the thing we didn't really
right, and it is a good example

of, you know, the actors
and the director like finding extra laughs,

is the the Selina like kind of
pacing back and forth and just like staring

at them sort of like when are
they going to be finished with this?

You know, Iron Contra like just
meeting lists, sort of be ad like

that always really makes me laugh.
Her just like losing her patience with them,

and that was you know, she
brought that and the and the director

and the staging of it, I
thought was great. Did you guys have

table reads and over zoom? And, Um, is everyone bringing it a

lot too, when I don't even
know, I mean I don't know if

anybody's doing table reads over zoom.
We do have table reads over zoom.

People bring it, I believe during
the reading of this episode. Um,

I brought it because I forgot that
my microphone was on and I was laughing

audibly at my own jokes darting the
tamble reading, until rob started texting me

frantically to turn off my microphone,
that I was embarrassing myself and him and

our joint creative and your children and
my children. Father, and it all

comes back to the theme of Father. We're going to take another quick break

now and when we come back we
talked to Ariel Shaffer, who plays Ivan.

Plus we get an interesting clue from
Robin Matteo and we make our guesses.

The Mats Book that Mabel Finds Leads
the trio to the pickle diner and

to Ivan. First he gives them
his list of regulars, then all of

her sponse and returning that big envelope
of cash that bunny gave him. I

heard you talking about bunny this morning. Make me think I should return the

money she gave me. I don't
want any trouble, but this is a

hell of a lot of money.
Levan doesn't look good. For seven years

she was my regular. She always
tipped me extra, at first just little,

then even more generously. Maybe she
saw me as grandson, maybe she

saw me as something else. This
is one layer of the onion I did

not need to peel back. You
know, when someone gets knocked off,

who just gave you a bunch of
money, your imagination can go to a

lot of places. This is Ariel
safer. He plays Ivan. Are they

looking for the money? Are they
look I have the money? Are they

looking for me? You know what
I mean. So it makes the the

wheels spin in terms of like,
who's missing this money? You know.

Why is this person dead? You
know, and Ivan doesn't want any trouble.

I felt that that Ivan was uh
an immigrant or came to America.

Wasn't born here, came. He's
part of a family diner and, like

people who work in restaurants. It
can start to feel like a family situation,

and then it feels like a family
to the people who are his regulars,

you know, and someone like bunny
may remind him of the family that

he's no longer lives in the same
city with. He sort of has that

that fellowship with the people who come
in and I think he's one of those

people that people will tell him their
life story if they sat next to him

on a bus or a plane.
He's that guy that has that sort of

openness to him and people project things
onto him and tell him everything, and

they I mean he probably has an
insight or a connection to everyone in that

neighborhood and everyone in that building.
I mean there's everyone at some point eats

in that diner that lives in that
building, and that sort of places him

in the perfect position in that sort
of ecosystem of only murders in the building.

You know, it's like he's pickled. Diner is a hub of sorts.

So Um I think you'll see all
sorts of people coming in and out

of the diner. And when anyone
is in that diner, who's there but

Ivan Ariol like Ryan Bouchard and Jane
how to Shell and, like a lot

of the cast and crew, has
a theater background. To the strangeness of

Shooting Out of sequence, cross shooting
episodes in the single day, having different

directors, being absolutely brand new on
a on an ensemble cast and showing up

to like deliver, felt more comfortable
to me because I was surrounded by theater

people. I mean everyone's sort of
like okay, everyone there's a level of

faith and trust in process and Um, and it's sort of like being there

for each other. And you know, even even Marty Short and and Steve

Martin have a long history of doing
live things and and performing, you know,

Um, doing theater. UH,
Steve Martin has written a lot of

plays. So there's something in the
DNA of the whole show that that has

that going for it. And you
know what, I actually just realized this,

but Oliver and Charles are representations themselves
of the intersection between television and the

theater. That's true. Oliver is
a theater director and Charles is a television

star. In Oliver's theater background goes
back many generations. He says, there

was a thing in the when Oliver
is with will and they're watching the kind

of rehearsals of the play and will
is talking about, you know, the

Famili's roots and you know the theater
go back whatever, however many generations.

I don't remember if that's in there, but uh, he was. There

was an additional line where he's talking
about like how far back in theater they

go and he references the Vaudeville team
of, uh, Putnam and booth and

that Oliver's great, great great grandfather
was in a comedy or performance team with

John Wilkes booth that broke up after
booth assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Uh, but

actually it wasn't a Vaudeville team.
We it was even older than that and

it was we called it like the
traveling chicken torture medicine show of Putnam and

booth, I think. And that
just was decided to be a nod,

sense mouthful. That was horrible.
And so it was not mused, but

it was shot. It was very
amusic, was very amusing. Well,

there to me. Marty tried it
a few times and that he was.

I think even he was like,
I can't make sense of this and we're

like fair enough, that we and
we wrote it. So Martin short cut

a line and Steve Martin added a
line, and I think Steve's line that

I think is really funny. After
when Oliver leaves to go get the drugs

and he just leaves him alone,
kind of stranded, and he tries to

talk to somebody and he's like,
I don't do well at parties because people

find me creepy. I think that, I think he I think that's him.

I mean I don't think we definitely
didn't write it, so I think

he added with that. I don't
think we would write something like that.

It was just it's just so funny
and it's such a like straight like it's

it's like a perfect knuckleball joke,
you know. Like I think we wouldn't

think to write something that just kind
of is so kind of straightforward like that.

It's very funny in this episode.
Are we anywhere closer to knowing what

fourteen and savage mean, because you
guys talk about it in this episode,

so I think the answer is actually
yes in fact. Okay, thank you.

After you watch um all of the
episodes, if you do watch all

the episod sense you will come back
to this podcast episode and you will hear

me say this again because you're listening
to this again, I guess, in

this reality, and you will hear
my voice and you will not, and

you'll be like, I understand exactly
what he's talking about, and what a

clever little tip of the hat to
the way it all played out. You

know, there is a movie that
we are referencing, but I can't say

what it is, but I'll come
back to it and you know, ask

me again after episode Ted. I'm
afraid if I say it will give too

much away. But you are closer. Sure you know? Yeah, let's

go with that. That's good,
okay, you know. Well, we

will take those clues. I really
don't even know what you're talking about.

Well, like, what I'll say
is we were we would talk about this

movie and this this thing in this
movie, and then I went and rewatched

the movie and I was like,
Oh, I totally fucking misremembered it and

I'm we did it. We're doing
a complete it wrong, but I god

like figuring it out based on those
clothes. Really didn't reference it, just

thought you were referencing KK. You
know what time it is? My favorite

time if it's the WHO done it
done it summit. This is rare.

Keener and I guess who we think
the murderer is based on what we've seen

so far, which is up to
episode five. Up to episode five,

we write down our murder suspect,
put in an envelope and seal it until

right now, when we feel it
to each other. All right, so

you picked Howard, the cat guy. Yes, why did you pick Howard?

I finally doubled up, because I
do believe that he is a guy

with allergies and when he sneezed,
probably of dust or something, you know,

I feel like he may have punched
himself in the eye. He you

know, he's that kind of guy. It seems like, I don't know,

he's just a guy that acts like
he's the sweetest and you know what,

was me kind of guy, but
those are the worst I'm telling you.

I think that there's something about him
underneath that fluffy exterior, underneath that

ferocious, Fluffy Evelyn Exterior, and
that's that's my guest. So, okay,

are you ready? Okay, ready, okay, you said Alice first

of all copied us. But Um, okay, there's a whole new reason

for this. All right, I
want to hear a kid alice as you

recall I mentioned I wondered if they
would bring back Jan. It's kind of

like a silence of the land three
kind of thing to her brains. Right.

So they did that and she said
to be aware of a new person

in someone's life, and Alice is
definitely a new person in someone's life.

Plus, she also hid her murder
card for the son of Sam game,

remember, hidden in her back.
Yes, she well, she bothered me

as a Gamer. She bent it, I mean she bent the card and

I was like that ship. I
mean, honestly, I'm just saying,

Scorch, and you just said pick
your brain about Jan which made me laugh

because you're you've got some good one
liner. Um, yeah, very good.

Okay, I'm also wondering, yeah, do you think she's really British,

because I got a lot of questions
about her background. YEA, so

maybe that's a fake thing as well. So I'm keeping my eye on Alice

this week. Thanks everyone for listening
to season two, episode five of only

murders in the pod. Our inboxes
open again, so please send over your

thoughts and theories to only murders at
Straw Hut Media Dot Com. And if

you're enjoying the show, like I
know you are. Please, please,

leave us a rating in a review. It really helps people find the show.

Only murders in the pod is a
production of Straw hut media, hosted

by Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lawn,
produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowls.

Associate producer is Stephen Mark Ley.
Original music by Kyle Merritt and only murders

theme music by Saddartha Kolsa big,
big thanks to John Hoffman, Xavier Salace,

Louisa Maltini and the entire Hulu team. Okay, KK. So we're

at the Fan mail and I'm going
to read one and you read one and

if we want to do a quick
discussion. But Um, this is so

good, Ryan m thank you so
much. This is I think Alice is

the murderer, but stems from a
larger theory. I believe that Leonora folder

and real is cooper are the same
person, Rose Cooper being the pen name

for her art, and that Charles's
father was in love with her and had

a child with her. This child
has the blueprints from the Arconia passed down

from her mother, and that's how
they placed the painting in Charles's apartment,

Lenora ran away to have the child
in hiding, and Alice is the grandchild

of Leonora and wants her inheritance.
Isn't that interesting? It's very interesting really,

Ryan. You thought that through,
Ryan Am, I really appreciate I

thought. I'm so I was fascinated
about the rose cooper being the pen name

for art, because a lot of
people do have the pen names for their

art. You know what? I
think is fascinating that a lot of people

think that Rose Cooper is still alive. Okay, what's your taking, so

keener? I picked Julie H for
a very specific reason, because she picked

Theo, who has been one of
my guesses in the past. Her letter

says, my current operating theory is
that Theo is the killer bunny yells for

the person to go away after they
knock on her door, but then they

knocked her second time. Theo would
not have heard her say that. She

also thinks he knows about the secret
underbelly of the building and in theory,

Lucy's nervous heavy breathing when she's in
the passageways would have been audible to the

person with the flashlight, but theo
would not have heard that. Oh See,

that's really like fleshed out two.
That's a really good thought. Okay,

that's all the time we have,
but we want to thank some people

and I just want to say Sarah
Be, thank you for the eastern edg

clues idea. That was great.
Yeah, we also want to thank Celeste,

Anna, Philip, Alyssa, Sarah, Justlyn e a f five eight,

seven eight Ellen from South Carolina.
We appreciate some people try to do

anagrams, JSD Um, thank you
everyone. You are all were greatly appreciated

listening to this and we'll catch you
on the flip side. Keep them coming.
Only Murders in the Building Podcast
Sneak behind-the-scenes of the Hulu Original, Only Murders in the Building starring Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez. Listen in as Elizabeth Keener and he... View More

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