EPISODE 16: Episode 15: Best of Soul & Science

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Show Notes

We’ve had a blast talking to some of the marketing world’s most brilliant minds here on Soul & Science. Instead of a new episode this week, we’ve compiled some of our favorite Soul & Science insights from the first half of this season.

Thank you to all of the insightful guests for sharing your knowledge with us. We have a lot more exciting interviews coming up. Listen to Soul & Science, and fast forward your marketing mind in about 20 minutes. https://apple.co/3LDwXNu

Brought to you by Mekanism


Hello Soul and science nation. This
week we have a special episode for you

highlighting some of our favorite soul and
science moments so far. This episode includes

insights from Foot Locker Global CMO Jed
Burger. You need CMO Jessica Jensen,

e o CMOS so, a young
Karen lending tree CMO and customer experience officer

ship Singh in World Fifty, CEO, David Wilkie. We'll be back next

week brand new Ellison Jed Burger,
chief marketing officer at foot locker. When

we think about soul, we're thinking
about, you know, an identity,

a powerful identity. What your purposes, what you stand for? In science

is like providing results and it's business
data. You know, how how do

you kind of think about those two
things together? Separate? So I think

about them together. So much of
what we do is subjective, period,

and everyone has an opinion and you
and, like I said, you can't

mention that. You can't measure everything, and even when you can, people

are gonna challenge the heck out of
it. So, you know, one

of one of the ways that I
constantly measure myself, and I think I've

grown into this, is am I
still trusting myself, my instincts, my

gut, and am I still confident
and credible enough to say the hard thing

in a meeting and make the hard
decision Um, to not care about optics

and just do the right thing for
the business, Um and in the right

way, with humility and with values, and I and and if that and

if all that is true, I'm
doing you know I'm doing. I'm doing

and we're doing okay, and you
have to be willing to be wrong.

We're gonna we're going to make mistakes. The where you where, where where

you getting trouble is when you start
doubting yourself and when you start listening to

everybody's got an opinion. So at
some point you have to take in all

of those opinions and make a confident
decision and and trust yourself and you know

if you're wrong, you say I
was wrong and you move on. But

you can't then second guess yourself with
the next decision or your toast. Is

there an inspiring person, past president, alive, dead, whose shoes you

would want to walk in for a
day, that you always, you know,

felt that that connection to in your
life? So I have a I

have a little boy who is nine. He has down syndrome and he's autistic.

Um, and he, uh,
he, yeah, he actually had

and he's gotten so much better.
Ironically, an issue with shoes and socks,

just with the sensory pieces. But
he's he's he's gotten so much better.

Actually, it's funny. I always
tell Chris Davis from nuance he only

wears new Olens. And, by
the way, most kids with down center

only wear a new balance. It's
just the way they've made their shoes and

the way the kids with downs and
feed are. But anyway, yeah,

but he is this, he is
this, Um, he is this silly

goofy and like and like, he
is absurdly full of love. Like if

you go to my instagram page,
you'll literally find like just the biggest smile

and laugh and and like the biggest
love bug in the world. Um,

but his verbal communication is limited.
So, you know, I always wonder

what's going through that brain and what
and how he sees the world. So,

you know, I would love to
uh, I would love to see

the world through his eyes for a
minute, Um and sort of, you

know, bounce around the day like
he does in his shoes and his new

balances. Oh my God, it's
amazing, best answer ever. What's his

name? Jonah. He's the sweetest. Is Literally like the light of mine

and everybody's who is near his life. Jessica Jensen, CMO at. Indeed

your approach. Do you think?
More head or heart? Is it more

solar science? Is Jessica Jensen one
or the other? I think that if

you asked people who work with me, they would say I am a business

lady first and a creative second.
That may be accurate in my own mind

and in my own heart. I
think art and math are equally important and

inextricably linked, and I my passion
for what I do comes from the expression

of our mission, our stories,
the human experience of job seekers and how

do we help them. But I
was also died in the wool of business

analytics. Yeah, Um, and
so, uh, you know, you

can't. You can't take that out
of the out of the factory. You

need both, and it's a matter
of what is it? Eight twenty is

it? Is it? You know, I think that's well, and it

varies day to day and week to
week. Right. I mean I spent

I spent some of my first few
months and indeed doing our twenty two,

you know. Okay, ours budget
head count plans, Um, you know,

and that took up an incredible amount
of headspace. Um. And then

after we got that figured out,
I'm able to spend more time engaging with

the creative work. So, you
know, it ebbs and flows as well.

Absolutely all right. Do you have
any anything you feel has been left

unsaid about Jessica Jensen in the world
of marketing that you want to lay on

us or, UH, discuss?
How do you feel like we've covered?

I mean, we've covered a lot
of ground and it has been superunt I'll

say I did uh some Improv Comedy
Day in Los Angeles. I studied at

the groundlings and my father is also
hilarious, and so I grew up with

Richard Prior, Steve Martin, uh, you know, all of the all

of the wonderful old comics, and
I am dedicated to keeping the funny in

business and I'm the most likely person
to bring a rubber chicken to any meeting.

Um, and so, uh,
you know, frequent use of muppet

analogies and or video references. So
I just encourage everyone to find time for

comedy and people are too shy to
share it. Probably not. In your

world, in the creative advertising world, there's probably plenty of comedy. But

good Lord, I will tell you
in some other areas of business we need

to laugh a hell of a lot
more. King, Chief Marketing Officer at

Eos, is building a brand,
you know, more head or more heart.

So so I think that, Um, I think that like on average,

because they're they're no, like you
know, there are no black and

white answers to these types of questions. But I think on average, the

way I think about the role of
science and what we do is to inform

the short term, and I think
about the soul and what we do is

to build and invest in the long
term. They're just serving, you know,

kind of different purposes. So if
if, for me, sciences,

data analytics, decision making AIDS,
because I don't think data can necessarily make

the decision, it just helps you
make a decision. Um, those are

all things that are informing your your
day and day out. Now, the

next week, the next quarter,
the next, you know, six months.

But the soul of it that that's
an investment in the future and if

we're all trying to build something,
that that that sort of you know,

indoors, past us. There has
to be soul that you're creating and investing

in and building along the way as
well. I think that's one of the

best answers I've ever heard. You're
in you're in a architecture, right.

Is there a piece of art or
architecture or anything that, Um, you

look back at as being pivotal for
who you are today? Could be a

band of music, film, any
piece of you know, entertainment or art

that that you really responded to.
I mean that the I think Um.

I've always sort of like absorbing things, but I'm actually thinking way back,

way, way, way back,
and I remember Um in my earlier architecture

needs, being obsessed with a protect
particular building, Um, and it's actually

in Paris. It's it's a building
called the institute dumondarab. It's like the

Arab Institute in Paris, and it
was designed by an Architectique, John Novell,

and what I love about it is
that it's a modern interpretation that is

um. It's like kind of rooted
in technology, but also hearkens back to

old like Islamic designs, and it's
basically like, you know, these these

beautiful camera lenses that have been like
create that create a mosaic and then throughout

the day, the camera lens opens
or closes depending on how much sunlight is

coming through, and there's just something
so beautiful about the marriage of the recognition

of and respect for design elements that
are old but combined with technology that is

new, like modern day technology.
There's something that I just find fascinating about

artwork that combines those two things.
That's awesome. Shifts sing chief marketing and

customer experience, officer and lending trade. There's the heart in the head and

the performance marketing piece, the transactional
pieces humming along and your going to kind

of add the the brand piece or
the hard piece or the story piece to

it, to the mix, but
you're also saying to the the data performance

piece, you're gonna put some heart
into that as well. So it's not

it's not just separating the head and
the heart. It's kind of and that

has to be present in both both
places. Absolutely. I mean that's that's

when the magic happens and that's where
I want my performance marketers okay as deeply

about the brand as my brand lead
and vice versa. And the way I

think about it. You know,
my wife married me not just for my

head or my heart. I want
to believe it was for both. That's

what makes us whole Um and,
coincidentally, my wife is the court of

Savvy, so should be worked on
that together. So all the trust conversations

happened in the house as well.
Here's a soulful question for you as an

author and writer. That plays as
a CMO, because the first thing you

said was you're a writer. Are
you reading anything right now, fiction or

nonfiction, that is inspiring you?
Yes, I am, and I mean

I should caveat it that I'm I
just about finished listening to it, uh,

because I've been on the road quite
a bit. It's called the splendid

and the vial and and it's a
it's a book about Winston Churchill during the

battle of Britain and his leadership quality. So this was in the context of

World War Two, when the Germans
were bombing London and when, uh,

the United Kingdom thought America was not
going to enter the war and they were

the last one standing, so to
speak, against the you know, against

hip club. And it's an incredible
story of of leadership, of the untidiness

of humanity, how we all have
our weaknesses, Um, and, and

how how we can learn to rise
to the occasion, whatever that occasion maybe.

I love that, and so and
perseverance. Do you have any inspirational

quotes or mantras that you think about
that helps to find who you are?

Honesty is the highest form of loyalty
and and I think that matters a lot

as I work with my own leadership
team, as I work with my bosses

and my peers, as I work
with partners like you, Um uh.

You know, we're in difficult times. I mean you know, if you

think about the war in Ukraine,
the tragedy that's I'm folding there, we're

just coming out of a global pandemic. We may be going back into one,

who knows. We as I said, we couldn't have bigger divisions between

Wall Street and Main Street. Uh, people are struggling for for us to

make a difference and have an impact
and to find the misinformation wars, it

takes more honesty and we have to
demand that of each other, because that's

when we can break out of the
stagnant drops that, map me, find

ourselves in, and that's what I
asked for my team. And I won

my boss. That's what I'll give
him because it's honestly, is the highest

form of loyalty. David Wilkie,
CEO of world fifty. What are some

of your books or movies that made
you who you are today? It's a

good question. Um, I'll cite
one of my favorite authors. I guess

she's a little bit of a role
model because I just think the world of

her, and also her book is
Torus Current Goodwin Team of rivals, which

is one of the best business books
ever written. And it's not a business

book, it's a you know,
story of you know Lincoln's presidency, in

particularly how he built his cabinet among
us in his you know, his people

who were his rivals in the political
landscape, even including people who run against

him as president, and it basically
all came down to, you know,

the making better decisions. You know, and in today's Day you want,

you know this, this notion of
the value of diversity. Is Really what

you're chasing is cognitive diversity. And
there's lots of other reasons for inclusion and

diversity, but in a business decision
making sense, you want diversity of thought

and diversity of perspective. For making
better decisions and Lincoln was, you know,

was the one of the best as
a president of gathering that input from

people who thought very differently than him
and using it to make some of the

biggest decisions in the in the United
States history. So if you haven't read

it, go read team of rivals
and Doris is one of the most beautiful

persons in the world. It's awesome. I love that. I wish we

it's it's interesting how far we've come
from diversity of thought in the political landscape

today. Do you have a favorite
quote that you are a mantra or something

that you always think about? You
gave us the vases, one for the

for the business. Do you have
a personal sort of mantra or a quote

that you always go back to?
I've got a favorite word, a single

word, and the word is essence, and a mentor of mine gave me

a definition of it. It may
not be the webster definition of it,

but this is the definition I use. So for essence, that without which

that which is is not and if
you think about it for a moment,

it's only way to describe essence is
that if I remove it, you now

recognize it by its absence. So
what is Jason's essence? What's the essence

of mechanism? What's the essence of
you know anything, you don't really know

it until you am in that thing
without it, and then you're like,

oh, that's the asthens. Thanks
so much for listening to soul and science

and we'll see you next week.
Soul and science is a mechanism podcast produced

by the amazing Frank Riscoll, Lion
Tillotson, Kyler Nielsen, Emma Swanson and

Lily Jablonsky. The show is edited
by Daniel Ferrol, the theme music by

Kyle Mary and I'm your host,
Jason Harris. H
Soul & Science
Does marketing live in the heart, or in the head? Should you trust your instinct, or your integers? If the answer is both, should you lead with one more than the othe... View More




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