History. Rated R. : Edmund Burke and James Fox

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In honor of the Queen, we continue our celebration of British people! Historic British people! Two more iconic and important parliamentary speakers, Edmund Burke became the mentor to James Fox...only to have Fox betray him. Learn how Burke was an early champion of the colonies and was critical of the King for mistreating them. And hear his hurtful final words for his pupil Fox.

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History. Rated R.
Let's be honest. History is full of f*cked up sh*t. But what are we gonna do, pretend like it never happened? Have a drink with your host, actor and writer Will Sterling, and his more qualified former Presidential Speechwriting co-host, Dr. Craig Smith. They unpack the silly, salacious, scandalous, and serious stuff in history. If we don't learn from the past, we're doomed to repeat it. So let's at least try to do it with honesty and, wherever possible, a laugh.

Episode transcripts


Ah, and and Um. Severalof the people said to tell you that
they do not hear the noises thatyou are afraid they hear. That's a
good sign, you know. Saywe don't even think there's a charlie,
because we never I can definitely hearthe yet look at it. Look a
look at me, Craig. Ohmy God, you look like a swimsuit
model. Welcome to history, ratedar. My name is will sterling. I've
just been being I've been complimented bymy co host with the most here,
Um Tina Turner's vocal coach, DrCraig Smith. How are you, Craig?
I'm a proud Mary. Oh,nice one. Craig was just complimenting
my swimsuit model looks. Here arecurrent set up. Is My new apartment.
We are in my office, inthe office suite in Casey and I
his office, and Craig is sittingat a table because he has notes and
needs to be the studious one,and I am sprawled out on a couch.
If we I wish there was avideo version of this so the people
could see that I am doing mybest little mermaid and but he is fully
closed. Folks, I know thatwell, we'll see after a couple of
times. You never know what happensafter the MARTINIS. Um, Craig,
I have I have no I haveno history of food or drink prepared because
I've been busy moving and unpacking.You are the star of the show today.
Okay, so Um, but youwere telling me before that you have
been spreading the gospel of history.Rated are people, your friends, your
following, your constituency, as youcall it. Are are loving the show?
Yes, there's a game at theRancholo Cerritos. The word gang is
that to learn the board of directorswith me, and they're like in the
show, and so we're expanding ouraudience. That's good, that's very good.
They were excited about today's topic too. I have to be an confession.
I'm really just filling time because Istill want to opening segments good,
that people can get caught up withour lives. I'm to make a confession.
I've listened back to myself. Yousaying sweet James, prompting the Scottish
version of Sweet James, who wrotehis own Bible, is maybe one of
my favorite characters. Oh, you'reyou became at Scottish sweet James, who
was Scottish King James, who who? Sweet, Sweet Scottish King James?
If also the people could see it. Charlie is over the moon that his
pal Craig is back. He's sittingin his side and we'll not leave him.
So, licking my elbow as weare, we're one big happy family
again. We're gonna have a greatdinner. You know what I'm making?
You know what I'm making, likea dijon beef stew. Oh, I
don't know what the rest of therecipe is titled. I've never I've never
heard of one. Oh yeah,I have now. It's like a French
yea, like a lot of onionsand red wine and things like that.
Who are we talking about today?We'll continue. We're going back from from
U. Don't get into lesson yet. We're teasing it, but this is
a continuation sort of of our parliamentaryspeakers right our parliamentary speakers, and we're
still doing the tribute to the Britsbecause of what's going on with the Great
Queen who was laid away today,laid away, as we yes, in
in uh at Windsor next to herhusband Um, after, you know,
seventy year reign, and so we'vebeen doing a little British stuff and this
is going to kind of wrap itup a little bit. Yes, this
is what happens when I don't havean interest segment plan. I guess we
could just get on with it.Huh Yeah, okay, we'll be right
back. We're talking about two peopletoday. One was the mentor of the
other. Um. The first onewe're going to talk about is Edmund Burke,
who is the father of modern conservatism. Is this a story of like
when the disciple becomes the master,like outwits them? No, not quite.
Without not quite. Okay, it'sgoing to have a sad ending.
Im afraid folks o murder. Getyour no, no, no, no,
no, get your get your handkerchiefsready for the ending. Oh No.
So, Anyway, Edmund Burke wasborn in sevred. He was Um,
the son of a Dublin Barrister andthe Um now I've heard the lawyer,
lawyer, that's right. The waythey wear the wig now because they
were from Ireland. Yes, theywear the little wig and because they were
from and look stupid, by theway. I've always thought that looks stupid.
By the way, White Wig backin the day. Okay, the
fact that they still do it inthe judges and everybody like where's these stupid
costumes? I'm like, guys,we have the Internet. Take the fucking
wig off. What are you doing? Yeah, it's crazy, crazy anyway.
Um, you could not become amember of parliament and you couldn't get
into the upper echelon of things,uh, if you were a Catholic.
So what is this? Why?Why? Did? Why do people hate
Catholic so much? Well, becauseof Bloody Mary and there was the big
division. So you had the Churchof England. So if you weren't in
the Church of England, which isbasically a Catholic light, why? You
know, you you couldn't get onwith anything. So Burke wanted to succeed
like his father had succeeded. Sohe became a closet Catholic too. Yeah,
he swore he was in the Churchof England, but he was really
a Catholic. His mother was adevout Catholic, his sister was a devout
Catholic, but you had to becomea member of the Church of England if
you wanted to succeed. Like me, he was delicate child. He was
he was an athletic. No,no, no, no, I've seen
the pictures of you. You wereyoked playing football. I saw it.
No, you were you're a sweetyou're a sweet boy. You're this way.
You're a good man. Anyway,Edmund Burke eventually became a tall,
gawky Um redhead like you, Imean not like you, do not like
me, like my sister, thefamous Amos Um, and he went to
Trinity College. Now, Trinity CollegeUm was founded by Elizabeth and it is
named for the Holy Trinity. Butit was a Protestant college in Dublin and
it exists to this day, andthat's where they have the book of Kel's.
I don't know what that is.It's a very famous book of Um
Inscribing Calligraphy, beautiful calligraphy, butalso pictures that are painted on the pages
like a Canterbury Tales. Yeah,yeah, yeah, okay. Um.
So in school he the classics.His favorite person was demosthenes. By the
way, Charlie's brought to his ball. Thank you, thank you. He's
coming with his ball for he Charlie'shere with his tennis ball to celebrate the
French invention of that game. Um, demosthenes was his favorite. UH,
demosthenes was a great Greek speaker.Um, and the way demosthenes overcame his
stammer was to put pebbles in hismouth and give speeches practicing on the beach
with pebbles in his mouth. Howdid that? The sand got rid of
the stammer. Stammering can be curedin tons of ways. STAMMERS can sing
without stuttering, right. So,okay. So the pebbles in his mouth
sort of psychologued like, distracted himand he was focused on the pebbles and
if he could speak with pebbles inhis mouth, when he took him out
he was really good. Interesting.Yeah, he read. Anyway, back
to Burke. He read Shakespeare,Milton Bacon, the whole deal. Kevin
Bacon. Kevin Bacon once, howmany degrees? Yeah, from Kevin Bacon,
this is Francis Bacon. Okay.Now his first publication was a satire
of a politician who had attacked moralsin in in religion in England. And
Burke was a big fan of religion. He thinks that grounds people in a
morality that they can't get from government. They have to that's why we need
religion and that's part of the conservativemovement that he starts. Religion is very
important as a moral grounding. Sothis begins here, the Conservatives and religion.
and Oh yeah, um the thethe attack on this member of parliament
was so good in terms of satirethat everybody thought the member of parliament had
really written it. So he wroteit saying pretending it was that, pretending
he was somebody else. I see. Yeah, in the seventeen fifty six,
he writes his doctoral dissertation on thesublime, and this is really important.
Um Burke is not only an importantparliamentarian, but he is a major
rhetorical theorist and he is the onethat develops his theory of the sublime.
The sublime is something that so overwhelmsyou that it chases everything out of your
mind. The beautiful attracts you,but you can think of something beautiful and
something else at the same time.The sublime is like a hurricane or it's
like a volcano. It's he givesthe example of horror and he inspired with
his theory of the horror of thesublime. So he's very important. Horror
of this like something could be soimpactful that it's terrifying, right. He
then, Um, he became ajournalist and he turned his attention to history,
books, and history is also veryimportant to the conservatives, because what
survives the test of time is whatis good. So conservatives are evolutionary,
liberals are revolutionary. I see.Okay, ironically, conservatives do not believe
in evolution. I'm kidding. Yeah, the really strict one, some of
some of the good ones, stupid. Um. So he wrote a book
called the settlement of America, andthis is important because this is his first
looking at the colonies and he's goingto be on our side in the revolutionary
war, which is really amazing.Um, he became in seventeen sixty one,
he became the secretary to the LordLieutenant of Ireland and his career was
on its way. The Lord Lieutenantof Ireland, the Lord Lieutenant, whoever
that is. That's I don't knowif I can do the AX. Yeah,
in seventeen sixty six he became amember of parliament and an advisor to
the prime minister, Mr Rockingham.I love it, Mr Rockingham. Yes,
that's like. Um, before therewas Mr Rogers, there was Mr
Rockingham. He'd come in, he'dtake off his wig and his old loafers
and he would sit down by thefire and he would beckon the children over
with puppetry. No, no,what he actually did was he had a
big Ham and he sat in arocking chair and made the ham go to
sleep. It's a wonderful image.It's a wonderful image. Um, now
what burke is given in order tobecome a member of parliament we talked about
once before in an earlier episode.He's the parliamentary the parliamentary member from a
rotten boroughs. Remember, each partyhas a certain number of boroughs that they
can appoint people to if they ifthey can't get elected anywhere else. So
he goes in in a rotten borough. I can see the infamy. Can't
get elected anywhere else. Call oneeight. Eight rotten borough will get you,
elect you out of jail. DoI call rotten boroughs? You can
have one of our rotten borough forjust ten dollars a month. So at
this time, seventy five, theBritish imposed the stamp tax on America,
which means every time a document changeshands it has to have a government stamp
on it, and the colonists areopposed to this because it's an internal tax.
The British say, Hey, wewon the war with the French,
now we have to pay for itand we have to put taxes on you.
Um, little did they know theFrench would come. Burke got up
and said, Hey, if you'regoing to tax them, they get representation.
They should have parliamentary seats from thecolonies. And Uh, this was
one of his great speeches on thefloor of parliament and William Pitt who we
talked about before Pittsburgh, Um praisedthe speech and saw that burke was going
to become a leader in parliament.This guy was really hot. And the
taxation with the representation, is that? Yeah, what led to that?
No, no tax colonies. Thatcolonists had said it first, but he
reinforced it now and gave this.The speech was like four hours. They
spoke for a long time in thosedays and they got nothing else to do.
And one of his colleagues called himdinner Bell Burke because when he got
up to speak everybody could go outto dinner and then come back and he'd
still be talking. How dare youleave during my yeah, it's like it's
like angels in America. You Go, you come back the second night.
This place still going. It's right. Yeah, in seventeen seventy he wrote
a new book thoughts on the causeof the present discontents, again warning that
revolution was coming unless we treated thecolonies better. and He tried to then
also provide a principal grounding for thewhig party which he was in at that
time. The whigs, that's right, the whigs. Yes, the whigs
are of the people. The Toriesare of the aristocracy. Right, not
to be confused with the band,the Afghan whigs, which are of the
people for the music. That's that'sthat's great. Correct Virtue lies in government
service and there should always be.Oh, and burke was a complete advocate
of the two party system. Ifyou go beyond that, everything fractionalizes and
and breaks up fractionalizes. So heinspired actually our two party system in America.
That's why we have two parties,because we agreed that there should be
the party in power and the loyalopposition, and that's it. If you
split up the loyal opposition it's noteffective. Okay, and if and if
you get more than two parties,then it's really hard to get a majority
and get one party that rules.So that was basically his Um, his
approach. Um. He also attackedthe king for corrupting the leadership of the
country. This is this is GEeverything. I know enough through musical theater.
As he and he said in thisspeech, the great ruling principle of
the Cabal and that which animated andharmonized all their proceedings was to signify to
the world that the court would proceedof its own forces only. So a
system that cannot be held accountable asno system at all. And then,
in this speech he came up withI think probably his most famous line.
When bad men combine, the goodmust associate, else they will fall one
by one and unpitied sacrifice in acontemptible struggle. Now, later, Leo
Tolstoy, the author of war andpeace, simplified it and made it more
popular. Bad men succeed only becausegood men do nothing to stop them,
and that was wouldn't then also thenused it where it was like evil only.
Yeah, what's the quote I'm thinkingof? where it's like if good
men, I don't know, menin the High Castle, used it.
Yeah, I mean basically, goodguys need to get together to fight the
bad guys, and they wait toolong to do that. Um, in
seventeen, seventy four, he sawthat the revolution was coming. He got
up and he gave a speech calledUm, we need uh conciliation with the
colonies or we're gonna lose them.Quote. Do you mean to tax America
and draw a productive revenue, revenuefrom thence, if you do, speak
out, name, fix, ascertainthis revenue, settle its quantity, define
its objects, provide for its collection, and then fight when you have something
to fight for. If you murder, Rob, if you kill, take
possession and do not, in thecharacter of madmen as well as assassin's,
violent, vindictive, bloody and tyronical, without an object, fail where you
want to go. So he's justcalling him out. This is where it's
going to go, folks him.Yeah, I didn't realize work with such
a champion of America. Oh yeah, and and and then, of course.
That's why George gives that little speechin Hamilton's about that you did last
time, King George. King George, you're going to kill your friend back.
Yeah, I will kill your friendsand family. Yeah, but it's
to remind them of his love andthis, this passage inspired man manually in
Lin Manuel Miranda, Miranda, toput that in when and and then burke
quotes the Bible. When children askfor bread, we are not to give
them stone. And then he goesinto this metaphor about how England is the
mother country and the colonies are ourchildren and we have an obligation to take
care of them. Very powerful metaphorthat lasted for a long time. Wow.
By the way, I'm looking atyour notes again. It's a big
stack of it, I know,but I go through them quickly. I
know. I just don't have manyneurosis about my notes. I don't make
too many jokes. Well, Idon't have a neurosis about sound, sound
quality, by the way, Iwork in podcasting and I'm producing this show,
so I have a neurosis about howlong the episodes run and how they
sound. Forbid, that's right,god Um. And so the war breaks
out and he gets up and saysmy hold of the colonies is in the
close affection which grows from common names, from kindred blood, from similar privileges
and equal protection which inspires the FourteenthAmendment in America. These are ties which
the these are ties which, thoughlight as air are as strong as links
of iron, and so he's he'sa very conservative principle that if you have
these long traditions, you have tohonor them. What't what does the Fourteenth
Amendment say? The Fourteenth Amendment saysthat you have equal protection under the law
and that you have, uh,all the rights that are in the in
the middle of rights apply not onlyto you but against the states, not
only the federal government. Up untilthe fourteenth amendment, the Buil of rights
only applied to federal government. Okay, okay then, okay. so he's
vindicated. The Americans win the revolution, that party is over, and that
is the first phase of his career. The second phase of his career is
attacking the revolution in France. Sonow he's defended the American revolution is justified
and he goes after the French Revolutionas totally radical, indefensible and writes reflections
on the revolution in France which setsout his conservative philosophy. Um In he
uh. At one point he givesa speech which results in the government falling.
That it's a vote of no conferenceconfidence in the government because of the
way they've been conducting themselves. AndUH, he is. He is joined
by is protege Charles James Fox,more of which we will uh talk a
little bit later. Um. Sothen I feel like I just pressured you
and now all were here. Youknow, I just want to you know
what the as you may recall,the Romantics like the French revolution when first
came. Everybody liked the French revolutionarythrowing the king. And then it goes
hey wire. There is this reignof terror, thousands of people are Guillotine.
The king, the Queen and theirchildren are killed in Sevento, which
is really horrible, and so bythe many people. People just stormed the
castle, get him and kill them. Well, they in in seventeen,
eighty nine. They took the beaststeal the steal day, Best Steal Day.
There were negotiations with the king andthe king thought. A few years
later, the king felt threatened andtried to escape the country. They got
them at the border, they broughtthem back, imprisoned them, killed them.
What's do like the French Revolution?I mean the Russian Revolution was also
horrible, really terrible. Um,so he fight, he fights that battle
and convinces the Brits that the FrenchRevolution is bad and then Napoleon takes over
after the collapse of the chaos andand now England is at war with Napoleon
for fifteen years. So this wholeyou know time, Burke is going to
die before them. The last phaseof Burke's career, he goes after the
corrupt rule in India. The IndiaEast Uh east India Company of England runs
India and there taking Um heroin andselling it in China. They have all
the tea they're taking out of Indiaand all of that stuff and they're treating
the native people in India very badly. And so burke takes up their their
cause and indicts has has the parliamentimpeach. This is where we get impeachment.
First Time impeach the governor of India, who is British, Lord Hastings.
So he's called home for trial.And when you go to trial in
England, where do you go totrial? The House of Lords, just
like you go to trial in theSenate when you're impeached here. That's where
we got the model. So that'show it's important to know this history.
Okay, and the first time throughthe House of Lords does not convict Hastings.
They don't and and and Burke isjust infuriated. And then there are
more charges brought and they kind ofget him on a misdemeanor. Basically,
the House of Lords says, well, there was a lot of bad stuff
going on, but we don't knowthat he knew about it. It's like,
you know, Nixon didn't know aboutthe Watergate break in. Well,
of course he did. Never mindthat it was bad enough that that a
British guy was the governor of India. Yeah, yeah, it's like the
that's why, that's why it's anVictoria becomes an empress because she owns India
because of all the colonization. Yeah, which they continued up until, Oh
God, yeah, Elizabeth too.She, uh, they did some.
You know, she wasn't the saintnecessarily. Yeah, after after World War
Two, that's when the colonies startedbreaking away. And but up until then
it was bad. Some of theseplaces. Uh, and and, like
Jamaica is asking Philip for reparations aswe speak, because good for them.
All the French were worst to theJamaicans in the bridge. Every pay black
people reparations. That's what that's whatneeds to be said. Well, poor
Edmund Burke loses his only son todeath and he writes I am alone,
I have none to meet my enemiesat the gate. He falls into debt
and the king provides him with apension, which is a very nice thing
for him to do. In fromsevent to his death in seventeen seven,
he warned of war with France reaffirmedhis conservative principles. Now the one thing
I've left out of this story sofar is Charles James Fox, which I'm
going to turn to now. Butwait. So Burke Burke lived past the
revolution, yes, American revolution,yes, and into the directorate of Sevente
seven, in the rise of Napoleon. Was He fucking jazz that the Americans
won their independence? was indicated.He was vindicated, but did he feel
like he was like don't. Hewas very sad. We could have kept
them and had only listen to me. Only listened to me, and we'll
come back to him as he laysdying. Okay, quickly, quickly to
Charles James Fox, who was bornin seventy nine. He was raised on
an estate. His father was veryrich. He was spoiled as a child.
He was with his father one timelooking out uh into the English Channel
and his father took a watch outand looked at the time and Charles James
said, I want your watch,Daddy, and his father said what do
you want it for? And hesaid I just want to look at it,
Daddy. Wonderful accent by the way, and thank you. And he
took the watch and threw it intothe ocean immediately. Immediately. relatable guy,
what a relatable and his father didnot punish him because he wanted him
to feel secure. This was ahuge mistake, in my opinion. Anyway,
from yeah, the father guided himand pushed him in his quest for
superiority. He studied in college.Charles James Fox studied Latin Greek, Demosthenes,
Shakespeare, the usual thing. Heattended Eaton, the prep school,
right, high school, prep school, you said. Right, but yeah,
we've we talked about this before.The channel was you went to Eaton
and then you went to Oxford orCambridge, to be you know. So
he went to Oxford. Um,he started gambling. Ah, but he
he also excelled at all subjects exceptthe law, which is ironic. On
graduation he toured Europe, and thisis something you should do, and he
ran up a Tory Europe? Yes, I would like to know. And
the second part. And ran upa debt of a thousand pounds gambling.
That's what. Hundred thousand pounds,hundred thousand pounds. Back, then back
a thousand pounds. It's like that'slike ten million dollars. Yeah, what
the fuck? Guy Has a badhabit, as we shall see. Um,
he developed a wit that was pleasingto manor many people, and his
father then helped him get a rottenborrow. Do you need assistance with your
gambling debts? Eight, one,eight, eight, rotten borow, we
will bare you out of jail.Do you I called the rotten borow.
Okay, Um, at first hesigned on with the Tories. Okay,
and we're gonna see. This isgonna be a lot of fun. Hey,
let's pretend like you've never said itbefore. What's a Catcha Tory joke?
What? What's the Catcha Tory joke? You've already made it on this
show before, very, very grownworthy, but I want to hear it
again. Catch a Tory by histoe. I don't remember. Oh,
you made a joke about a catcha Tori. Yes, anyway, okay,
the Tories. Um, he continuedto gamble. He violated Party discipline,
sometimes voting with the whigs, theguys. A gambling addiction? Yeah,
definitely. This alienated the Tories andthis opened Fox to the influence of
Edmund Burke, who became like afather to him. In seventeen seventy five,
he joined Burke in opposition to PrimeMinister North and supported the American colonies.
YEA, Peter North, no,he Mr and Mrs North. He
defended America against arms and oppressions.He supported British the British unwritten constitution,
Um, and under Burke's tutelage hebecame an excellent debater. So do you
feel like burke was the father henever had? In a way, but
his father kept bailing him out.I think he thought of his father is
weak. What I mean is tosay that he was a father he never
had, because he needed a fatherwith this, he needed discipline. Did
he get disciplined from Burke? Okay, of course you'd love it. He
bailed you out of your ten jilliondollars. Gambling Dead, horrible. Anyway,
under Berke's tutelage he becomes an excellentdebater, well researched he's excellent at
repartee. What does that mean?Comebacks, which is very important, and
he develops this new form of argumentation. It's like a fugue in music.
So he has theme one, whichhe develops for a little while, then
theme two, which he develops fora little while, the theme three,
which he develops for a little while. Then he goes back to one and
extends it, then to two andextends it. And his theory was you
had to make a eight three timesbefore you convinced people. And you know
who took up on this and didthe same thing in America? John Williams.
Jesse Jackson did. He he woulddo the same thing. He learned
it from Charles James Fox, andI like Jesse Jackson speaking Um. So
he then walked across the aisle.You know what that means? He left
the Tory Party and went to theWHIG party. Was Burke upset with him?
Burke was a wig. He washappy. He actually recruited him,
but he had Charles James Fox hadso offended King George during the debates over
American policy that he king George saidhe'll never become prime minister as long as
I'm alive. Furthermore, Charles JamesFox had a relationship with George's son,
the Prince of Wale. So willbecome George the fourth and Fox is Um
condemned for corrupting the Prince of Walesand making him into a gambler. Now,
when you say relationship, no,kind of know. They had a
friendly they did not have a sexualand there's a gambler. There's enough of
that. Yes, there's enough ofthat. Yes, in England of lots
of human sexuality. Yes, Germany'smasculine, French is feminine and the British
are Bison, the British. Thereyou go. There's nothing more masculine than
two dudes in a relationship. Right, that's the most masculine you can have.
So we go through the revolution,he's on birth side, so on
and so forth, and then inwhen the treaties being negotiated to end the
revolution and where we're gonna you know, we're gonna get the United States out
of all of this. The Toriescome a Fox and say, you know
what, you want to be Secretaryof State? Oh, and he says
yes, and all the whigs arelike you son of a bitch, you're
walking across the aisle back again,because you have no principle. So Fox
became isolated. Pitt called Fox themost dangerous man in the kingdom when this
happened. How did Burke feel aboutthis? Burke is not happy at all,
I would think. Not Happy.Um, oh dare you walk across
the island and walk across it again. But Fox is good. He makes
he's a Fox. He makes acomeback. He introduces the east India Bill.
We remember their problems and Um,he gave one of his most effective
speeches on behalf of the bill andthe bill carried to seventeen to one,
oh three in the parliament. Um, William Pitt the younger. So now
we have Pitt's son who comes intoparliament, Pitt Junior, and he's a
Tory and he hates Fox, andso he will now start blocking Fox's career.
Fox will go after William Pitt theyounger, and that becomes attention.
In the election of four the whigslost a hundred and sixty seats. What
out of how many? I meanwe're talking maybe five hundred seats, and
they lost hundred and sixties. Wait, how does it? How many did
each party get? Three and theylost a hundred and sixty. They were
in the majority of that lost andduring the election even Fox was going down
to defeat after eleven days of balloting. In England they would at that time
they voted for two weeks and theyposted the results every night, so you
knew where you stow it. Soyou could change that, seems a little
and so guess what he did?Famous movie, Kara Knightley, the Duchess,
the Duchess. He gets the Duchessof Devonshire, missus fashion of the
day, to campaign for him.She was like the Andre Hepburn of her
time, yes, although more fleshon her bones, and Audrey Hepburn the
skinniest woman to win an Oscar inthe history of the world. Karen Knightley's
pretty skinny, but I think theDuchess of Devonshire was not that thin when
they when the votes ended, Foxhad one by two D and thirty five
votes. After fourteen days. Theelection was tested, something that would never
happen in America. And we're talkingabout a literally, a good, an
actual margin that you should contest.What was trump contesting? Eighty thousand votes?
He well, he wanted eight thousandin Georgie, Georgia, you know,
another seven thousand. Yeah, itwas crazy. Son of a bit
in my drawer down here, Ihad eight thousand votes. Well, parliament
had to decide whether the election waskosher and it took nine months. And
so Fox got what so that hecould sit in parliament. Uh, rotten
borough, would you like to sitin parliament? Have you been elected?
But it's the narrows too margin.Call what did it, rotten borough?
We would get you your seat inCongress, in the what is it?
House of load? There you are, that's right. So Fox. Then,
once he got back in, hejoined Burke in the trial of Warren
Hastings. Uh, the guy gotimpeached, and so again we now we
have fox coming back to burke.They're they're all chummy again. Pitt the
younger saw this as an opportunity toattack Fox, the evil. Pitt the
younger defended Hastings. He Pitt theyounger. We call him armpit where I'm
from. Right pit UMPIT, andFox retaliated by giving a speech on the
floor of parliament saying that Pitt theyounger was interfering with Russian affairs and would
get us in a war with Russiaand eventually that would happen. Wouldn't get
the Crimean war was a war betweenEngland and Russia. And what happens during
that war? The charge of theLight Brigade. Well, I don't know
what that is. That was thethe light brigade when charging down this valley
like idiots, and the Russians hadcandidades on each side and they wiped out
the Light Brigade. But they becameheroes, I'm eventually the English and the
French one the Crimean war. Theybecame terrible heroes because they all died.
Yes, it's nothing like a deadhero. It's so sad, like when
people like, oh, but theyall became heroes. I'm like, no,
because they were. That's horrible.Yeah, I don't want to be
a hero because I was killed,a hero because I lived to do some
cool ship. Well, I meanthere are martyrs. Well, of course,
and said, listen, they gavethemselves soldiers who sacrificed themselves like that's
not I'm not saying that this isa bad, dishonorable thing. It's just
that ideally, we wouldn't make baddecisions to put soldiers in positions in which
they get massacred. Ideally, itstupid English general exactly that that this would
happen. Okay, Anyway, Um, after this fight is going on,
suddenly here comes to French revolution andFox supports it. So now burke is
mad again. Like you sign upa bit naturally, you know, I've
tried to train you, and don'tyou see this? Fox said, no,
no, no, no, no, I'm a romantic. The French
are throwing off the monarchy, andBurke said, you want to do that
here? And Fox, kind oflike wings, you want to do that
here. So Fox had endorsed therevolution and burke breaks with Fox again.
Um, Fox opposed Britain's war withFrance. And then it it. It
looks bad because the French go crazyand, you know, kill people and
all of that goes on. andUm, Fox, UH, Pitt gives
give us a speech that you know, we French are bad, this is
all all gone crazy. And Foxreplied immediately for four and a half hours,
turning Pitt's words against him and refutingevery point that Pitt had made.
Fox proved that Pitt had shut downchannels of negotiation with the French and was
a warmonger. Anyway, the treatywith France was terminated once again in eighteen
o three. But before this happened, there was a moment on the floor
of parliament where, Uh Fox wasdefending the French revolution and and Burke was
opposing it. And Fox, youknow, attacked Burke for his position and
Burke said, my principles are moreimportant than my friends. I will never
speak to you again. Fox puthis head in his hands and started weeping
and ran from the floor. Yearslater, now we return to burke on
his deathbed. As he's dying,Fox comes to the door and says,
please, let me see my mentor, and the Butler goes upstairs and says
to Burke, foxes here, hewants to say goodbye, and Burke says
tell him to go to hell andthen dies without a reconciliation with Fox,
and Fox is absolutely heartbroken. Wow, you fool me once. Fuck you,
is basically. Well, I meansometimes, you know, friendships break
up and things happen. Yeah,I mean it, John and John and
Paul, you know. You know. And and as they went through this
Napoleonic war with pit on one sideand Fox on the other, Pitt and
Fox died within six months ago anotherand Napoleon was still alive and carried off
on for another nine years as asemperor of France. Yes, wow,
and that's our story of Edmund Burkeand Charles James Fox. What a wonderful
story. I was engrossed. Ifeel like I actively didn't. I like
to make some jokes, but Ididn't want to interrup too much. I
was it was a very engrossing story. I have an email to read and
we will read that right after this. Yes, an engrossing story. Look
at Charles is still by your side. He loves me, Heores you.
Look at this little smile in hisface. Let see if I can take
a photo and we can post iton the page. It's kind of you.
There's got a lot of sun behindyou, but it's a very sweet
well, a very engrossing story,Craig, I enjoyed that and I want
people to know, in case anyonewho was curious when anytime a British person
named Fox has mentioned, this isnot Guy Fox. Remember, remember the
whatever of November and the stupid VivaVendetta Mask? This is not that person.
Just in case anyone who was like, is this the V for Vendetta
Guy. This is not the DAand it's not Alan Fox. WHO's Alan
Fox? And they were the boardof the rat three. Ah, the
gang at the Chel ceritas with theirswitch blades and chains and the slick back
hair and the cool te boards jackets. I know that gang at the Ranche
Surtas. They beat up they theybeat up nicky last week. They broke
his thumb Um. I have aan email from a listener, a friend
of ours. I I they wrotein a long time ago and read.
I read their email and the titleof this email. This is all on
me, Craig says. Yet anothercase of the Miss Gendering, although it
is misspelled, so it says missfendering. He's he says. Ahoy.
I previously wrote in about the boardgame on the nine presidential elections. You
having to get a chance to playit yet. I haven't played it yet.
You know I need to buy it. I'm gonna order it. Okay,
that's on the I'm gonna put onmy Amazon card anyway. In the
episode, you guys called me byFeminine Pronouns, but I am in fact
a guy. I Dana. Idid it. That was me. Andrews,
a great accurate right over two inthis correg here, I'm always busting
your chops about trying to be inclusiveand I'm the one who keeps sucking shut
up, Um, he says.I'm not new to this, though.
I do have a riddle from whenI worked as a library aid in the
local library during high school, intheir early slash made nineties. There were
three of us, myself, Dana, Leslie and Cassidy. Two two guys
and a Gal. Guess which one'swhich, and this is for you to
guess. He gives us the answerfurther down. So, between Dana,
Leslie and Cassidy, who were thetwo guys? and WHO's the girl?
I think uh les least the girl, but you know, Bob Hope was
Leslie Hope. That's right. Sowell, you are correct, sir.
Leslie was the girl. He says. I've been enjoying the royal episodes lately
been learning lots. Well, Ihope he really enjoys this episode, because
I mean, there are a mannamed Karen, are there? There's a
great tennis player from Russia, KarenKachinov. Really? Yes, I did
not. I've never even read aboutI'm Dana, named Carol, and they
spell it with two els. MyDissertation Advisor was Carol Arnold, Carol like
like Lewis Carroll, or it's thefirst name, the first name. His
name was Carol Arnold with two e. The proof is in the putting,
Craig. Folks, keep your pronounsgender neutral until you know who the fuck
is talking to. You don't.Don't you jump to conclusions like Fox would
about something I don't know. Well, this has been a fun episode.
I hope people are enjoying this littlesegment on on on British people. That's
what I'm calling it, our segmenton British people. I got some work
to do because next week's episode Ineed to take on the task. We've
been talking about this for like months, but my life has been chaos and
I've been busy, so I've beenlike, you've moved whatever you have going.
WE'RE gonna go back way in ourtime machine of of topics, of
of material and we're going to speakin great detail on Mary Shelley's mother,
okay, Mary Wolston craft, andthat will be a role reversal episode and
Craig gets to host and gets tomake jokes in the middle of my prison
test, as uh some might callit. I have been will sterling.
You can find me on Instagram,with twitter at will sterling underscore. Craig
is the underscore rhetor on Instagram,UM, my medium blog, medium dot
com, slash at William Sterling.I got a book coming out, Craig
in spring, starting deep teases formy novel, starting debut novel from William
Sterling. Actually it's will sterling.That's what Oy. But do you have
a what's The fiftieth book coming out? What's the new what's the situation?
The new one, Um, thetwenty third book is coming out from the
University of Alabama next year. It'scalled fear in the First Amendment. It's
really significant analysis of the Supreme Courtdecisions. Is it anything like fear and
loathing in Las Vegas? No,okay, we don't do the drugs and
the Hunter Hunter Thompson thing. Um. But we have a second edition of
are First Amendment Profile of the SupremeCourt coming out from the University of Delaware
press next year. That's news tome. And you've submitted a second edition
for the Romantis. So yes,and I'm waiting to hear whether Cambridge is
going to publish it were your busyGuy, Craig, busy guy. I'm
a busy guy. Well, everybody'sbusy and we appreciate you fitting us into
your busy schedule. You're listening.Busy schedule as the Brits. Thank you
for fitting us into your busy schedule. Spell Labor, wrong labor, the
Labor Party. I Have Been WilliamJ Sterling and this has been Dr Craig
y Smith, and we will seeyou next time on es rerated are. That's Question

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