Crashing Cannes #11: Kai Deveraux Lawson, Co-Founder & CEO at Valerie, and Dr. Charlene Thomas, SVP of Marketing at Def Jam
July 7, 2026 · 23 min
Why listen
Learn why most brands borrow culture instead of driving it, and how to tell the difference.
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In this episode
- What it actually means to drive culture versus extract from it
- How independent agencies move faster and read nuance better
- Lessons modern marketers can take directly from the music industry
- What cultural relevance looks like when it is built with intention
About this episode
Most brands that think they’re driving culture are really just borrowing from it.
In this Crashing Cannes minisode in collaboration with Indie at Large, Jason and Lindsay Harris talk to Kai Devereaux Lawson (co-founder & CEO at Valerie) and Dr. Charlene Thomas (SVP of Marketing at Def Jam Recordings) about the role of culture in modern marketing, how indies are able to move faster and better understand nuance, and what marketers can learn from the music industry about building cultural relevance.
Brought to you by Mekanism.
About Soul & Science: Fast Forward Your Marketing Mind
Soul & Science is an award-winning podcast where marketing’s brightest minds reveal what it takes to build breakthrough brands. Hosted by Jason Harris, each episode explores the balance between brand building (Soul) and business performance (Science).
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